USA: How do you feel

[rapmaster]

Do you think the US made the right decision about Afganistan?

[Giancarlo]

Whoever voted "We screwed up big time" is screwed up by letting people starve inside Afghanistan. We need to take out the aging 20-odd MiG-21 fleet (no match towards F-16s), and drop food and medicine in.. how the hell would we do this in another way?

[WorldWarGeneral]

I applaud the strikes. It is unfortunate that innocents will suffer, but this is war, a war in which the Taliban created for himself, and in war, people die. Of course, the Taliban and bin laden will milk it for propaganda value. It's wrong to accidentally kill civilians who a government puts in that situation in the first place, but it's perfectly okay to knock buildings down in blatant attacks on civilians, as long as it's in the name of Allah.

Pacifists can carry on all they want about creating an international tribunal to punish these people, and having negotiations, but it won't work. Appeasement didn't work with the Nazis, and it certainly won't work here. Sure, create a terrorism court, how would you plan to get the terrorists there? Something tells me that they just aren't going to show up out of respect for the law. The Taliban and Bin Laden aren't to be reasoned with. They are beyond diplomatic overtures or any type of redemption. All they respect is violence. And they'll use any excuse to inflict it on people.

Bin Laden talks about how the Israelis are "oppressing" the Palestinians, and maybe that's partially true. But blowing things up, and hiding behind the veil of religion won't change anything. The Taliban and terrorists can cry "Jihad!" till they're blue in the face, but most Muslims around the world know they're little more than street thugs with big guns. Watching TV a couple of days ago, I heard something I think is very true: Most of the Taliban militia signed up to ride around in pick-up trucks harassing and terrorizing innocent people in the name is Islam, not to face off against a world-class military machine. Their lines will break under stress. United States isn't going to pull troops from the middle east, or withdraw support for Israel. The fact is, the United States and other western countries have strong, legitimate interests in the resources of the middle east. (Mainly oil) Whenever there is instability, they'll be there.

Quite frankly, I don't see unseating the Taliban regime to be all that difficult. What'll be hard is bringing down more established and conventional governments like Iraq, if only because it won't be so easy to win support from Arab governments. It is important to keep this campaign strong and not to ease up when the threat seems to diminish. The world will never be totally safe from terrorism, but destroying the "big players" will help a lot.

In any case, situations for the Afghan people couldn't get much worse. With the fundamentalist government gone, foreign investors might feel safer investing money in the country, which will benefit Afghanistan tremendously. I don't think it's the United State's place to directly setup a new Afghan government, that should be left to the UN. The United Nations would probably be better received and is more apt at that sort of thing.

[Giancarlo]

That was very touching and highly honest reply WWG... unfornately we got another pacificist here. Two now.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Thanks. :)

I respect what the Pacifists stand for, but there are times for peace and times for war. This is a time for war. We cannot let these people maraud through the world killing whomever they want. This isn't just the U.S. and Britain overreacting and intervening the affairs of other nations. The attacks on N.Y. and D.C. show that this is indeed a matter of national self-defense. Beyond stricter security precautions, there isn't anything from keeping terror from striking again, being perhaps more deadly. The best defense isn't stopping the plan once it's in motion, it's stopping the people who develop the plan in the first place. I'll agree that the U.S. is sometimes too involved in world affairs, but nothing justifies what happened. Bin Laden and his followers must be stopped before more destruction occurs in his barbaric "holy war"

[Giancarlo]

Bingo. Now a little bit of my commentary.
A time for peace is when our nation does not see any threat in the horizon towards our people, freedom, and security. The problem with the pacificists is that their ideas are contradictory to the actual situation. They do not realize that there could be another terrorist attack if we do not go after the people responsible, and to those who are planning to commit such an heinous act in the future. We must mobilize this plan, and we must use our military might of all developed and all civilized nations (muslim-civilized nations too) in a global fight. Those who seek terror try to eat away the morale of all civilians in developed countries but they did the opposite, they mobilized the legions of the concerned and committed in an unrelenting attack against their own networks. Therefore, they just brought along their own destruction.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Exactly. While bin laden and others like him claim to do these things in the name is Islam, they are violating the fundamental principles that Islam stands for. I don't think pacifists understand, at this moment, the gravity of the situation. The United States isn't the only target country. Planes, nukes, anthrax, etc. could easily be headed for London, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Mexico City, Toronto, Mecca (okay, a little far fetched, but since bin laden considers the Saudi government corrupt, not totally out of the question), Sydney, etc. - Any place where a government that doesn't "please" terrorists exists is a viable target. This is a crucial act of self-defense for the U.S., but the rest of the democratic world is at terrible risk as well.

[rapmaster]

I'm at the maybe mark. I chose that because, as Giancarlo said the Afgani Air Force and Army better known as the Taliban, is made up of crap like Mig-21's, maybe some 29's but not alot if any, then they might have some T-72's which comared to any US tank isn't anything but scrap metal. I'd have to say the hardest challange for the US is going to be stabalizing the region by installing a democratic government and not leaving the job unfinished as we did in 1989 when the USSR pulled out. Another problem we will face is the terrain. I fear a second Vietnam if we attempt to move into the mountains, my dad was in vietnam and from the storys he told me from that I can only imagine what the mountains of Afganistan are like, nooks and caves Taliban fanatics around every corner. I guess all we can really do is continue living life normally and support what our nation does, because as the president said, United We Stand.

[trenzterra]

hey USA got afghanistan's airport all bombed up, now does afghanistan have an airport? I pity the tourists. :p

[Toefur]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
I applaud the strikes. It is unfortunate that innocents will suffer, but this is war, a war in which the Taliban created for himself, and in war, people die. Of course, the Taliban and bin laden will milk it for propaganda value. It's wrong to accidentally kill civilians who a government puts in that situation in the first place, but it's perfectly okay to knock buildings down in blatant attacks on civilians, as long as it's in the name of Allah.

That's where I think people are still failing to see a point.

Bin Laden and any other persons involved killed thousands of people in the World Trade Center, for their cause.

This is their war. Deaths can't be helped. They know that what they are doing is right.

In retaliation, the United States and any other persons involved may kill countless civilians, for their cause.

This is their war. Deaths can't be helped. They know that what they are doing is right.


That is what I want people to understand.

That shows us that there is an underlying problem. A problem that no war is ever going to solve. Perhaps attacking Afghanistan will buy us some 'safety' for now.

It is always a short term thing. To look to the long term, we need to address any and all underlying issues.