Kiddie Hosts, and their oversold resellers!

Being a host myself, I have grown quite tired of all these kiddie hosts poping up one day and then gone the next. This only leaves a bad impression of all webhosts to the consumers, and makes them think that ALL hosts should offer 10gb disc space and 100gb bandwidth for $1 a month!

Lets make a break down here.

A decent server with 80gb disc space and 1000gb bandwidth costs ATLEAST $100 a month, and thats a cheap server with very little resources available. That doesnt include the cost of the billing system, support staff, fraud gate, and any other exspense that adds to the hosts operating costs.

If a host offers 5gb disc space and 100gb bandwidth for $5 a month, they are going to run out of bandwidth after only 10 customers, and only have $50 a month income. Doesnt add up does it! They will also, most likely, have NO support because they are a one man show, and you'll be lucky to get a reply to your support ticket within 48 hours, and when you get the reply it won't help at all because the host has no idea what he is doing! They will also have EXTREMELY overloaded servers that crash repeatedly, and probobaly disappear in a month or so. This is because they are overselling so badly. If all their users actually USE the 100gb bandwidth, they are SUNK!

This is a bad thing for the user, but a good thing for the host, as scam hosts should be banned from the internet all together in my opinion, but thats only in a perfect world!

To all of you in search of web hosting. If you require a reliable host, DO NOT buy from a host that has unrealistic prices such as the 5gb/100gb =$5 a month, it simply ISNT POSSIBLE. If you actually use what you have bought, you will most certainly be suspended by the host, with the excuse that you are sending spam, or some stupid reason!

Before choosing your host:
Send a support ticket, see how long it takes to get a reply and also to see if the host actually knows what he is talking about.
Send pre-sales questions that are specific to your needs.
Ask for an IP to ping to see how fast their connection is.
Ask for proof of uptime.
Ask what they offer if their uptime drops below their supposed "Guarantee"
Go to http://whois.sc and check the hosts IP to see if they are a reseller.

Anyway, I just felt I had to complain about this, because I am tired of getting emails saying " Can you give me 10gb disc space and 100gb bandwidth for $4 a yr?, XXX host ofered this!".

Reliable services arent cheap!

I agree with you, although everyone was a noob one day.... This helps them grow out of it. 3 years ago, i did not know what a virus was, and now, i can do ssh commands, code php, manage a server by myself. It does not matter how many staff they have, it matters if their staff can help you within 24 hours. The longest ever reply to a support request from me was 2 weeks, but my dad died and i had to go on holiday to birmingham to meet my family for a funeral. The longest between then and now is just 15 hours, which is nothing.

There are more than one reason for a lack of reply. Things like that above, serious ones, ones that make yourself feel pointless, are hard to overcome. Infact, this was just 6 months ago, and i only got my long term memory back around 3 weeks ago. That is how hard it was to overcome the pain.

Anyway, back on top.

1. I agree with your issues of kiddy hosts
2. I disagree with the support bit as we all have issues sometimes.

Robert.

Yes, I started out with a reseller and knew NOTHING about what I was doing. It took me ALOT of studying to figure it all out. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Yes, there are circumstances that can slow down support. But, if you actually have a support staff (as I do) then the only way you wouldnt get a reply within an hour from us, is if a bomb hit the building and blew it up!

Sorry to hear about your loss!

EDIT: I posted this in the General forum, not sure how it moved to the paid section. Mods, feel free to move it back if need be.

This kind of thing has been in the hosting business for a while now, aslong as kids can get their hands on "unlimited" resellers, this will always be a problem.

As long as parents continue to not monitor their kids's internet usage, there will be problems.

Pretty sure a mod moved it ;)

A decent server with 80gb disc space and 1000gb bandwidth costs ATLEAST $100 a month, and thats a cheap server with very little resources available.
Thats a Celeron :p

A decent server will cost 150-250$ /mo minimum
also let's not forget bandwidth quality.

Yes, thats a cheesy little celeron box with some cheep cognet bandwidth, and only 512mb ram, nothing you would want to run a hosting business on.

I get my servers from Liquidweb.com , and as you can see from the prices there, if I was to offer 5gb/100gb for $5 a month I would be shooting myself in the foot!

I can see how the big guys do it, they have enough revenue to buy more servers and oversell those too. But, the average host couldnt possibly do that!

To all of you in search of web hosting. If you require a reliable host, DO NOT buy from a host that has unrealistic prices such as the 5gb/100gb =$5 a month, it simply ISNT POSSIBLE. If you actually use what you have bought, you will most certainly be suspended by the host, with the excuse that you are sending spam, or some stupid reason!

https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/hosting/shared.asp

Godaddy is a kiddie host? Many hosts do it and manage quite well. I'm not saying I agree with this type of pricing but you haven't/don't really see the bigger picture. What is a "kiddie host" to you and why are you not one? Because you have "staff" and higher prices?

Yes, I started out with a reseller and knew NOTHING about what I was doing. It took me ALOT of studying to figure it all out. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Precisely backs the point I just made, you only see it from the perspective you have experienced in your history.

If you are annoyed about the sales requests you are getting, maybe rethink your ideas and your marketing targets. If you are relying on posting on forums such as FWS to get sales you are bound to only get people wanting the cheapest plans.

Your breakdown too narrow in perspective in your server with 80GB argument and does not stand. This is because, again you miss the whole bigger picture. Obviously running a bedroom host with a dedicated server means you don't see this.

There's nothing wrong with one man shows. I know many established hosts who are one-man-shows with happy clients.

And these "kiddie hosts" whatever it means is no problem. They just come and go. Not all "kiddie hosts" are scam, only very few of even "kiddie hosts" are actually scam. Most "kiddie hosts" are nice kids who thought it'd be cool to be a host. Scam is when a trader/business actually trades with the intention of ripping people.

I can see how the big guys do it, they have enough revenue to buy more servers and oversell those too. But, the average host couldnt possibly do that!

As for the bedroom host comment. My servers are housed at Liquidwebs datacenter in Lansing MI. so maybe some kids try that, but WE require quality for our clients!

And anyone that would try and defend the overselling kiddie hosts, must be one themselves!

...This only leaves a bad impression of all webhosts to the consumers, and makes them think that ALL hosts should offer 10gb disc space and 100gb bandwidth for $1 a month!

This statement is ONLY true for forums such as FWS and if that is your only source of clients then you have bigger problems.

While I agree with your concern, "kiddie" hosts only appear on forums such as FWS because they are not a registered company and as such can't sell/operate in an actual city or geographic location. They also do not have the budget to purchase real print ads. So if you want to avoid "kiddie hosts" who "ruin your name" and request for such deals as you mentioned, then simply target the bigger market, aka. a geographic location (such as your city) and get print ads and the such.

And James does bring up some very good points.

And anyone that would try and defend the overselling kiddie hosts, must be one themselves!

This statement was completely uncalled for. You opened up this discussion and so as such, you should be able to respect both sides of the story and not make childish accusations. James isn't necessarly defending "kiddie" hosts. He is simply bringing up another point of view on this topic.

Might as well get used to the kiddie hosting "providers" they are invading the industry.

Might as well get used to the kiddie hosting "providers" they are invading the industry.

But only through purely online mediums such as FWS forums and the such (which are easily penetrable by "kiddie" hosts). And FWS forums and the such are not and will never be a sustainable market.

The "defending" comment wasnt aimed at anyone in particular. Sorry if you took it that way.

I opened this topic to voice my opinion, not to have people try and attack me, or accuse me of being a bedroom host! WHich I would say is uncalled for as well.

computerhelpworld, I would think that restricting yourself to a certain geographic location would be worse then anything! While I do agree that the local market is always a good one to work on, I disaggree that you should only target a specific location.

okok, big deal, kiddie hosts, bunch of 12 year olds running a host in their spare time. agreed, its not a healthy thing for kids to be doing with their lifes. but.
this seems simply like a advertisement for your services! please, I hope this is wrong, I really, really hate it when people pull a stunt like this.

Well, I didn't mean "target" one geographic location only. What I meant was that you can generate a lot of business from real newspaper print ads and with those clients you wouldn't have to worry about these "kiddie" hosts.

And for the record, targeting a specific location works wonders :). But wether you are entitled to your opinion.

You are voicing your opinion and James is voicing his.

If not for "kiddie" hosts, the reseller market would essentially be dead...

this seems simply like a advertisement for your services! please, I hope this is wrong, I really, really hate it when people pull a stunt like this.

This does seem like this is what it is. Let me count the plugs for My-E-Space...

6 or so.

How is complaining about kiddie hosts, and telling people different ways to check out a host concidered advertising?

And what "Plugs" are you talking about? You mean my sig?,,lol

Being a host myself
But, if you actually have a support staff (as I do) then the only way you wouldnt get a reply within an hour from us, is if a bomb hit the building and blew it up!
I get my servers from Liquidweb.com
My servers are housed at Liquidwebs datacenter in Lansing MI. so maybe some kids try that, but WE require quality for our clients!

Also other comments. Seems like you are saying "I sure am glad that I'm not one of them. My website never oversells. My host isn't a kiddie host."

Not targeting you as a "kiddie host". Just seems like a legal plug for My-E-Space

As for the bedroom host comment. My servers are housed at Liquidwebs datacenter in Lansing MI. so maybe some kids try that, but WE require quality for our clients!

My bedroom comment was actually meaning the running of business from your bedroom not the location of servers, server in bedroom - that would be total ridicule. Nothing wrong with at home businessing (I do it all the time), the bedroom comment would have struck some consciences for sure, those who noticed it but again, nothing wrong with it if you trade/business by the rules/law with good ethics.

My-E-Space, nobody is targeting you, we all heard this rant about kiddie hosts before, that is all. You just got a bit excited you found out what these "kiddie hosts" are and wanted to tell the world about it. We're glad you are past that point of understanding as a web host :classic2:

I still would be curious for you to define "Kiddie hosts". I fail to come up with an exact, intelligent, fair description

I say...... Goodluck to them all.

To tell you the truth, I dont care about them anymore, it isnt going to stop so why keep moaning about it.

The OP is acting more like a kid than the host that is run by the kid :wink2:

Goodluck to all host that are run by young people :beer:

Ok, i'm giving my review here:

about a week ago, i set a reseller up on one of my VPS servers, this reseller was for: 10GB Diskspace, 100GB Bandwidth.

Guess what? I checked the account yesterday and found that there was 19 1GB diskspace and 10 GB bandwidth accounts on it.

Hold on a min... This means that he has already nearly gone over twice as much as he should, and with him coming up to 75% bandwidth usage it's a little worrying. I emailed him yesterday and he replyed with something about he cant afford to give any more money as he is not even making enought to cover the costs of the reseller.

WTF?

I sold the reseller to him for $13.65/month and if he has not made enought to cover the costs he must be selling for under $1 for 1 GB Disk and 10 GB Band

After further inspection on his site, i found him to be selling these accounts for $0.50/month if you order 6+ months in advance.

Today, his account reached 100% bandwidth usage, and i terminated it. Guess what? I have got 32 "hatefull" emails for his customers asking why there hosting was canceled saying they payed $3 (some even $6) for hosting (for 6 and 12 months!) they asked for refunds, telling me they would hack my server if i didant give them it...

I'm pissed at these kiddy hosts... they oversell WAY too much and then disapear!

Hosting-Shack,

He could allocate 19 of those because overselling is allowed, correct? If so you shouldn't be surprised at the allocations. Many reseller accounts allocated more that their usage limits..

Is that your policy? To terminate accounts once it reaches 100 percent bandwidth? A potential client would be too scared to purchase plans from you.

Hosting-Shack,

He could allocate 19 of those because overselling is allowed, correct? If so you shouldn't be surprised at the allocations. Many reseller accounts allocated more that their usage limits..

Is that your policy? To terminate accounts once it reaches 100 percent bandwidth? A potential client would be too scared to purchase plans from you.

In the case that we could not contact the host, and he was further not willing to pay any extra... he was using over 20GB/day meaning after 5 more days he would be over his limit by twice as much. (and he had only been hosted for 9 days!)

We normaly allow users to go 25% above on bandwidth, but his account was terminated because of the content (files) went against our TOS as well as the bandwidth.

Hosting shack to be frank ur not doing ur buisness properly. Any account that gets setup by your reseller has to be inspected ASAP (not a week later) when its up to keep ur server clean. Cause i remember a guy signed up for reseller on my hosting and next day he had 2 1 gb accounts on it already. I said i will terminate his account if he doesnt make packages smaller in size ( oh note he was on 150mb plan only :) ). Well he read the mail but decided instead to make another 1 gb account on it. And i just terminated his account and asked if he would like refund, he said yes i want refund plus the paypal fee that got charged, and i was like wtf is with kids. So hosting shack if ur doing buiness the right way you wouldnt be getting such threathing emails cause its your duty to put tos into action as soon as you see troublesome account.

I get P4 2.4gHz at The Planet with Yipes or HE bandwidth for $120 with cPanel, at a very stable provider. So if you know where to look, and who to trust, you can find the good servers.

Hosting shack to be frank ur not doing ur buisness properly. Any account that gets setup by your reseller has to be inspected ASAP (not a week later) when its up to keep ur server clean. Cause i remember a guy signed up for reseller on my hosting and next day he had 2 1 gb accounts on it already. I said i will terminate his account if he doesnt make packages smaller in size ( oh note he was on 150mb plan only :) ). Well he read the mail but decided instead to make another 1 gb account on it. And i just terminated his account and asked if he would like refund, he said yes i want refund plus the paypal fee that got charged, and i was like wtf is with kids. So hosting shack if ur doing buiness the right way you wouldnt be getting such threathing emails cause its your duty to put tos into action as soon as you see troublesome account.

Im not going to explain why, but don't pass judgements when you dont know the full story :P It gets a bit more complicated than you explain it. My way of doing things is my way. Maybey i don't like some of the things other hosts do on this site? But do i question them? Nope! Everyone to their own!

The simple solution to prevent overselling on resellers is to simply not allow overselling through WHM. I really hope I'm not playing tricks on myself and there is such an option in WHM.

There is an option. Right on the account creation page.

There is an option. Right on the account creation page.


Heh, yea I know. Just wanted to be sure that it not JUST ME who can see it.

shhhh it's a secret, nobody else knows.

well i'm a "kiddie host" and i've gotta say that not all of 'em are that bad.

sry if you guys have posted whatever up there, i'm in kind of a rush and dont have time to read all the posts ><

but some kiddie hosts have good resellers and offer good hosting and plans. its just there's a handful of 'em that suck at it and should stop trying.

just my 2 cents

Of course you're going to say that.

Kiddie host == "No Good"

It hurts their clients, it hurts them, it hurts their friends and family, etc. Just not a good situation

Hosting providers that can not supply the support demand, the advertisement that a company obviously needs to succeed, etc are ruining the industry as a whole, that is why there are few very BIG providers in the market now. Free hosting solutions are more appealing to consumers just for the fact that if they are going to get crappy service and support, why not get it without spending a dime.

this is one of the best reasons to use this http://freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2159381

also you can disable overselling yes, I have mixed feelings on this, I still allow resellers to oversell. Also on our reseller plans we limit the number of accounts the client can create depending on the plan level. I am not going to lie I don't have alot of resellers but the ones I do have I know are going to hang out for quite sometime and are going to be very pleased with the service they receive, and when it is time for them to go dedicated I know who they are going to buy from


Ok, i'm giving my review here:

about a week ago, i set a reseller up on one of my VPS servers, this reseller was for: 10GB Diskspace, 100GB Bandwidth.

Guess what? I checked the account yesterday and found that there was 19 1GB diskspace and 10 GB bandwidth accounts on it.

Hold on a min... This means that he has already nearly gone over twice as much as he should, and with him coming up to 75% bandwidth usage it's a little worrying. I emailed him yesterday and he replyed with something about he cant afford to give any more money as he is not even making enought to cover the costs of the reseller.

WTF?

I sold the reseller to him for $13.65/month and if he has not made enought to cover the costs he must be selling for under $1 for 1 GB Disk and 10 GB Band

After further inspection on his site, i found him to be selling these accounts for $0.50/month if you order 6+ months in advance.

Today, his account reached 100% bandwidth usage, and i terminated it. Guess what? I have got 32 "hatefull" emails for his customers asking why there hosting was canceled saying they payed $3 (some even $6) for hosting (for 6 and 12 months!) they asked for refunds, telling me they would hack my server if i didant give them it...

I'm pissed at these kiddy hosts... they oversell WAY too much and then disapear!

I phone verify any reseller orders and ask for the person who the account was ordered in. If they sound younger than 17, I disable overselling.

I just wanted to set the record straight on one thing. Not all reseller hosts are bad. I have a few that are good hosts, they just dont have the money to buy a dedicated server now. At one point I started with a reseller, then I got a p4 server, and now I have have a couple dual xeons I use for hosting. Everyone has to start somewhere, and as long as they have a good business plan and good ethics they will go along way. They cant afford their own servers yet, but then most of us cant sfford our own data centers. You start with what you can afford and maybe someday you will be able to have your own server, or even your own data center. That said many hosts, and alot of them are owned by kids, dont have a good business plan and arent good hosts. I dont think they are doing anyone any favors, but they wont be around long and their customers will be looking for a reliable service. Thats where the good hosts can cfind their best customers that will appreciate and pay for the service.

I agree. Resellers are not inherently bad. But they do have a bad reputation as of late.

I think everyone started out with a reseller, and then moved to a VPS, then maybe a SDS, then a DS.

Google started with one algorithm.

I just wanted to set the record straight on one thing. Not all reseller hosts are bad.
Your right not all are bad. However, most consumers who know anything about scalability would much rather go directly to the source.
I have a few that are good hosts, they just dont have the money to buy a dedicated server now.
Individuals looking to get into the hosting industry should start off with a reseller anyway. Alway crawl before you walk, this way you build up customer base, and at a rate which you can handle. Honestly if you don't have money to purchase a dedicated server though, they are in the wrong industry. To make money you need to spend, and if they don't have the money to spend for a dedicated box, then how will they advertise to their target markets?
They cant afford their own servers yet, but then most of us cant sfford our own data centers.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. Running a datacenter, and managing a dedicated server are two different things, in two different price brackets. Your comparing a solution that costs in upwords of $200-300 per month against running a dc which can cost close to 100K each month.
You start with what you can afford and maybe someday you will be able to have your own server, or even your own data center.
If you don't have money to spend, then you will not make any. You need to advertise, promote, pay bills, etc. If you start with no money, you will end with no money....very simple.
That said many hosts, and alot of them are owned by kids, dont have a good business plan and arent good hosts.
Agree 100%

Didn't mean to break your post down to size, but just had to say that.

Just wanted to rant about this:

Advertisements are SOOOO expensive! We spend approx. 350 CAD/month for a print ad in a computer magazine and another tech magazine, both local. And then like another 100 CAD/month on online ads.

SO EXPENSIVE FOR ADVERTISEMENT and so hard to penetrate the market.

Okay, sorry. I just had to say that heh.

I get P4 2.4gHz at The Planet with Yipes or HE bandwidth for $120 with cPanel, at a very stable provider. So if you know where to look, and who to trust, you can find the good servers.
Jose?

10 now

I agree that everyone should start small, and most of them do, nothing wrong with that at all. I started with a reseller account a long time ago and ran the whole thing by myself (200 or so clients at that time), but working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week burnt me out quick!
So this time I started with a dedicated server, and hired a support staff. I lost a good bit of money at the start, but having a server that has very low load and memory usage, and a support staff available 24x7 has paid off. AND NO THIS IS NOT A PLUG FOR My-E-Space, just stateing what I did, and what worked for me.
As someone above mentioned, you have to spend money to make money! And the more you put into it, the more you get back.
Would be nice if all of us that have our own servers would not allow overselling. This would cut off the scam hosts from offering 1gb/100gb for $1! This isnt possible, but would be nice!

I know owning a data center and leasing a server is comparing apples to oranges, but I was making a point. The point I was making is that while we all have big dreams we start with what we can afford and build from there.

Regarding the prices that people are paying, some of you should seriously consider colocating instead of bragging about the quality of the datacenters you're renting from right now. You basically have no control over your network and hardware.

If you have the funds, buy quality servers from dell and colocate them. In the long run, this will save you a lot of money. And more importantly, Instead of having to rely on the datacenters techs to do things right, you are in full control of virtually every aspect of your business. You know the other people in your cabinet, in your cage, and even in your datacenter. And at the end of the day, as you grow, you can take full advantage of economies of scale.

Regardless if it's a server you lease from a datacenter, or a server that you colocated, you STILL have to rely on the techs at the datacenter to keep your server up and running. Unless of course, you live next to the datacenter that your server is colocated at, and you can run over and work on it yourself, or login via SSH and fix it. So whats the advantage?
I looked around about colocating, and I dont see that it would be any cheaper since you still have to pay an average of about $200 a month (atleast) for the connection and rack space.

Im 15 I own host and 3 other sucessful websites. I just paid $125 for support/billing system and am soon hoping to buy a forum licence. I have 15 clients and are very happy with my service. The difference that makes between a kiddy host "If I fall into that catagory" is that they do it on the cheap, skipping vital needs like a proper support/billing system. Then they start to get to the stage that they are deprate and start selling as cheap as chips. I know a few 'kiddie hosts' that I used in the upbringing of my websites and their is no way I can match it with mine. You need to look for a trusted host that if they have a forum it should have a few posts behind it. Also check to see if their paypal account is varified. Remeber that small hosts can provide better support services than the big hosts because they have less emails (maby not tickets) so dont always judge a host by its support.

*Suggestion*

to have a hosting feedback forum on FWS so people can read reviews about webhosts and post comments about it

Regards,
Paul Buckley

http://zx4host.com

Good to hear that you are working as hard as you can to better your hosting service, and I wish you the best of luck. But, just purchasing a script for support tickets doesnt increase your support, it just makes it easier to track support tickets. One man obviously cant be available 24x7 to answer support tickets/emails/chats, and your support script won't answer them for you. Good support (in my opinion) is the ability to answer support requests fast, and accurately, not having a great support ticket system.
Again, I commend you in trying to offer your clients the best you can. It's rare to find a host that actually cares about their clients, and whether or not they are taken care of!
If you can't afford to hire a support staff, which most cant early in the game, maybe you should think about outsourcing the support just a few hours a day so you can sleep comfortably knowing your clients are taken care of. I suggest http://bobcares.com for that.

As for the feedback section, I think thats a good idea also, but I think they use the general seection for that, not sure though.

Best of luck to you in your hosting business. As I said, you are one of the few that care about the level of service their clients receive, and that will take you to the top in time!

It's Called Buisness

Thanks for that it included the support/billing script into the equation. If I was looking for a webhost and I was paying money for it I would automaticly expect it to have a support system. Even though it does not make any difference to level of support, however It's good to know that its their. And with the billing I would like to see my invoices and a way to track them down to know what I have paid for. These are only things that I look for when buying webhosting space.

Also make sure that they have money back. Or ask for a 3 day trial. Do a few tests like uploading files and downloading. You have the right not to be happy with it

Hrm.. My first hosting venture was with a 13yr old person.. (I was 16 at that time).. We managed to do well.. We didnt oversell or anything but we did make our time worthwhile.. So, its not all "Kiddie" hosts.. but I do admit there are ALOT of oversellers out there... Just look at their TOS and you'll find out how they protect theirselves from YOU, the buyer, from using all of what your buying...

Thanks my-e-space,

For this great topic, It has alot of meanings and contains great info.

Thanks again for the great post

Glad you found it usefull, some others just thought I was trying to be a jerk, or using it as a means for advertising, which was not my intention at all!

So you think only "kiddy-hosts" ""Oversell"??

1and1.com:
5gbspace/250gb/mth transfer/free domain: 2.99/mth. In the business many more years than most of the "adult hosts" here. They also have several of their own datacenters as opposed to rented servers that the "adult hosts" here use.

netfirms.com:
6gb space/300gb/mth transfer: 4.99/mth. They've been a sponsor of this very site since I found it (2002) and still going strong.

lunarpages.com:
5gb space/400gb/mth transfer/free domain for life: 6.95/mth. They've been at the top of most host ranking lists for many years.

godaddy.com:
5gb space/ 250gb/mth transfer: 3.95/mth. One of the biggest domain registrars on the internet with plenty of financial backbone.

The list goes on and on my friends, and these are all exactly the opposite of "kiddy hosts", they are in fact the big names in the hosting business, the first ones that pop up in google searches. They have their own datacenters and plenty of $$$ to backup their "overselling". So I'm sorry that you "adult hosts" don't like the fact that your having trouble, but that's business.

I never said only Kiddie Hosts Resell... I was making a generalization...

I mean take a look at www.DreamHost.com they sell 20GB Space and 1TB Bandwidth for $8.00 /month -- If that isnt OVERSELLING... I dont know what is...

This is life, people take things in different prospectives.

1) Kiddy Hosting's are all bad - Well it depends on the kid that is running it. everyone is different in their own ways and that is just human . I may be 15 however most people dont think that I am.
2) Kiddy Hosting's are the only people offering great offers/cheap prices - Well everyone has their own right to charge what they want. Also it depends on the kid.
3) Kiddy Hosting's are on bad servers - Generalization, You need to spend money to make money. Most kids might not understand this and do it on the cheap while other kids (like me) put their self in their clients shoes for once and spend money on a high quality server.
4) kiddy Hostings oversell - Well it always comes down to money and adults want money too.
5) Webhosting is about experence and time and effort put in to it. Kiddy Hosting around the 13 mark dont really understant about money and business structures. 15-18 will have a stronger education that might provide this. My understanding is that these kids should open up a host when they are ready and feel safe doing this. And need to remember that webhosting does not make money if you dont spend money. Have a business plan and controll your spending as it can get out of controll. Make a controll plan if your hosting does go successful will you beable to afford to upgrade?

This message was intended for a Kiddy Host's Guide and a understanding of facts and figures.

This ismy understanding and reflection and I may be wrong

If overselling is how the business works than so be it. The fact is you can't make it in this industry anymore w/out overselling. Why? Because huge companies who have been in the business many years are doing it.

So why on earth would a customer buy more expensive hosting and get less from joesnonamehost.com when they can get cheaper hosting with more features from a company who has been in the business for many years? It's lose/lose/lose vs. win/win/win as far as price/quantity/reliability (and by reliability I mean a company who has been in the hosting industry for years and has lots of financial vs. backup vs. Joe Shmuck running the host out of his wallet). At least with the kiddy resellers, you get the price/quantity. Think about it!

Ok DreamHost must be overselling. That space and bandwidth must be on a bad server/connection. And also they dont have cPanel.

Is this because it is too expensive?

Most people ask for cPanel with hosting.

And that cost $7.95 also includes a doman name so a server with 200gb of space can host 10 people and the bandwith 10TB of transfer = 20,000gb of transfer. How much would their internet be? Thats a total of $119 with a free domain yearly

Don't you just love it when a person reads the first 3 lines or so of a post and then chimes in with something that has aready been discuss over and over,,lol.

Yes, we know that 1and1, and Godaddy, and the other big guys oversell. That's because they can oversell a server by 1000%, and when they run out of space, they just buy another!

In the real world, where you and I live, that isn't possible. If any of us tried to do that we would be out of business in a matter of weeks.

As for DreamHost, if you read their TOS you will see that they limit you to a certain amount of CPU useage. The limit is so low that there is NO WAY you could use anywhere near 1TB of bandwidth. If you came even close to it, they would shut you down!

Their is always a catch

for your info I read the entire thread. I gotta ask you though, if you were a customer, who would YOU buy your hosting from? "My-E-Space.com" or 1and1 etc?? and why?

Well my-e-space is right to some extend.

I used hosting with so called "Hosting Kings" like 1and1 and Servage and they suck totally.

Well as for Kiddie Hosts there are lot of them who are scamers. But i too am lookin for Reseller Account but not to make money and ripoff people but just to learn.

There is time for everyone of us to start. I started with free Hosting two months back, then in ten days changed to Paid Hosting and now i am lookin for Reseller Hosting. I have money for VPS too but i am just waiting for the right time for that.

But i won't oversell bcoz i know how it feels. Ripped of 2 times by big time Scammers.

These big providers who have big plans - they don't all suck. There's reasons why they are big and why millions are using them. And no, it's not because they buy another server when they oversell - that's a ridiculous way of looking at it.

What is even more ridiculous is "kiddie hosts" boasting "We don't oversell! Buy from us!" when they have a reseller account on a server which itself is being oversold. If you actually don't oversell in any way, your hosting prices ought to be very high.

Yes I agree about that "kiddie hosts", but what can you do about it, nothing same thing as overselling. The funniest thing what I see with some kids or even "teen", whatever, from 12-15, call them self a WH CEO, for that you need to have certificate, for example I study Informational Technologys, and I for every finished year, get some "Title", for example, 1. Year when I finish I get a diploma, cisco certificat, and Title as System Administrator, after second year, I get title programer, and etc... when I finish it i become "Magistar" - Master of IT, and if I wan to go more which I will, I will be a dr.sci for IT. About kids running the hosts, well there are some of them that have some potentional, which will not stop doing their job and do all what they can, but like some1 mentioned 10/100 for $1-2 , that is imposible :shame: . First take some things, You need to have some control panel, and you will not use Webmin, Confix or even Zpanel which is free, yes you can if you rent a server for torrents or that kind of stuff, but for webhosting you need to have at least cPanel, with Fantastico which is extra charge, Direct Admin or Plesk. I preffer cPanel cause it is best for me, and all likes it. After control panel you need some billing software, for example I use clientexec and I pay for it 11.95/mo , after you buy billing software then you need some gateway processes except paypal, for example 2checkout, it is $49, good and safe, yes they have some provision (bigger for me than for USA/CA, cause I am in Bosnia (Europe) but for me they are excelent. Suggestion for all before buying a host, check who they are and that kind of stuff. When I search for something I use netcraft, now I have it installed on FF, and when I open some page it show me DC, Year of First showing online, Rank, Risk Rating, location. And the simple one search if you use linux I just type in my console host blabla.com it give me IP address, I do whois 2xx.xxx.xx.x, see from where it comes, ping it, do a nmap search to see is host a live or not, and also show me the time needed for that search, after that all I go to http://www.dnsstuff.com/ and there research some things. Anyway if you don't have a Netcraft Toolbar, you can check by going on http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=google.com for example, and there you can see all, last reboot, the DC, then some changes, when some host change the DC and etc. But it don't show that stuff from changes if you never searched it before, cause it is not in database.
Sorry for this long post, but it is a good topic ;)

Cheers :beer:

Yes I agree about that "kiddie hosts", but what can you do about it, nothing same thing as overselling. The funniest thing what I see with some kids or even "teen", whatever, from 12-15, call them self a WH CEO, for that you need to have certificate, for example I study Informational Technologys, and I for every finished year, get some "Title", for example, 1. Year when I finish I get a diploma, cisco certificat, and Title as System Administrator, after second year, I get title programer, and etc... when I finish it i become "Magistar" - Master of IT, and if I wan to go more which I will, I will be a dr.sci for IT. About kids running the hosts, well there are some of them that have some potentional, which will not stop doing their job and do all what they can, but like some1 mentioned 10/100 for $1-2 , that is imposible :shame: . First take some things, You need to have some control panel, and you will not use Webmin, Confix or even Zpanel which is free, yes you can if you rent a server for torrents or that kind of stuff, but for webhosting you need to have at least cPanel, with Fantastico which is extra charge, Direct Admin or Plesk. I preffer cPanel cause it is best for me, and all likes it. After control panel you need some billing software, for example I use clientexec and I pay for it 11.95/mo , after you buy billing software then you need some gateway processes except paypal, for example 2checkout, it is $49, good and safe, yes they have some provision (bigger for me than for USA/CA, cause I am in Bosnia (Europe) but for me they are excelent. Suggestion for all before buying a host, check who they are and that kind of stuff. When I search for something I use netcraft, now I have it installed on FF, and when I open some page it show me DC, Year of First showing online, Rank, Risk Rating, location. And the simple one search if you use linux I just type in my console host blabla.com it give me IP address, I do whois 2xx.xxx.xx.x, see from where it comes, ping it, do a nmap search to see is host a live or not, and also show me the time needed for that search, after that all I go to http://www.dnsstuff.com/ and there research some things. Anyway if you don't have a Netcraft Toolbar, you can check by going on http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=google.com for example, and there you can see all, last reboot, the DC, then some changes, when some host change the DC and etc. But it don't show that stuff from changes if you never searched it before, cause it is not in database.
Sorry for this long post, but it is a good topic ;)

Cheers :beer:

That's nice and all, but you do realize, your customers are split about 50/50 major Designers, Developers, and Coders looking for space and New Users, looking for their first website, or new businesses just looking to get online. DO you believe they are comparing DataCenters? Doing whois lookups?

By the way, the other guy who mentioned Dreamhost at $8 per month for 20gb space and 1tb of bandwith... they actually have a coupon code to get that plan for $25 a year (LOL)

striker,
personally I would be more inclined to buy from My-E-Space, because the big guys are so big that they couldnt care less if the client is happy/satisfied with the hosting they offer, they have a million other clients to make their money from. A small host, a good one anyway, will do whatever it takes to keep their client happy so they don't loose a customer.:wave:

striker,
personally I would be more inclined to buy from My-E-Space, because the big guys are so big that they couldnt care less if the client is happy/satisfied with the hosting they offer, they have a million other clients to make their money from. A small host, a good one anyway, will do whatever it takes to keep their client happy so they don't loose a customer.:wave:

Thats what I'd say (though, I wouldnt buy from you b/c your goofy ;) :beer: j/k)... I would prefer to go with a smaller company rather then a larger one because of the close Client-Staff relationships... Anyone who has experienced this with the larger companies I would be surprised... I have to nearly threaten every support staff person I have met at larger companies because they wouldnt/didnt do the right job...

At the smaller company it was always done with a smile on their face and done fast..

striker,
personally I would be more inclined to buy from My-E-Space, because the big guys are so big that they couldnt care less if the client is happy/satisfied with the hosting they offer, they have a million other clients to make their money from. A small host, a good one anyway, will do whatever it takes to keep their client happy so they don't loose a customer.:wave:

Someone else already accused you that this thread is one long big advertisement, and you proved that it wasn't, then you come back and post this about yourself?

Striker asked me if I would rather buy from the big guys, or My-E-Space (post # 59), I answered, whats wrong with that?

They said this was one big advertisiment, but if you look at the original post, it doesnt advertise My-E-Space anywhere. I did mention my name in some of the replies, but if I was tryign to advertise, wouldnt I have done it in the original post? And what does it matter to you if its an advertisment or not?

It matters because Tree did a very good job of pointing it out first.

It matters because it's kinda like breaking and/or "getting around" the 7 Day rule that many people get banned for.

Ok, I see your point, but the fact still remains that it IS NOT an advertisment! I answered a question that striker asked.

for your info I read the entire thread. I gotta ask you though, if you were a customer, who would YOU buy your hosting from? "My-E-Space.com" or 1and1 etc?? and why?

It may not be, alot of people see it as advertising though.

ok ok. ;)

Well ok, but I don't understand why. Like I said, if it was an attempt to advertise, I would have done it in the first post. Would'nt make much sense to post something and hope that someone asked the right question so that I could plug EDIT: (my hosting service) would it.

Don't want to say my own name now for fear someone else will accuse me of advertising.

Well ok, but I don't understand why. Like I said, if it was an attempt to advertise, I would have done it in the first post. Would'nt make much sense to post something and hope that someone asked the right question so that I could plug My-E-Space would it.

Actually this thread is an ingenious advertising stunt for the likes of Google MSN and Yahoo!

let's just give him the benefit of the doubt and hope the intentions were legit. if not, at least this was a good thread.

Actually this thread is an ingenious advertising stunt for the likes of Google MSN and Yahoo!

Would be nice, I can use all the help I can get with Google. I list pretty high in MSN for a couple of keywords, but Google seems to hate me, lol.

Yes, my intentions were good, and did not mean to advertise or make anyone angry. I appologize to all who took it that way!

As referring to some posts on the first page. Everyone has to make money in this world, and people choose different ways to do it.

did not mean to advertise or make anyone angry. I appologize to all who took it that way!

I am not/wasn't angry. If I was angry, you'd have less un-broken kneecaps and more crushed spirits.

We had a huge (15+pages) discussion on kiddy hosts a while back that deeplist started. Let me go dig it up so you can all see.

Here it is: http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76608&highlight=kiddy

Ouchhhhh http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=3773335#post3773335

WHT knows best :)

I'm not "sticking up" for anyone here, but it is a fact of the webhosting industry that there are always people who are looking to put down other hosts. There are always disgruntled customers, people who feel their support ticket wasn't answered fast enough, etc.

But that does kind of hit home there.

I may be wrong but I am pretty sure my espace isnt a "kiddie". Also just because one person posts something in a forum doesnt make it so.

Most likely not. But I've been wrong before.

Upon some research into this matter, I found out that a man named "Mark Brown" who is 30 years old owns My-E-Space.
Registrant:
Shelley Brown

I really hope Shelley is his wife. Otherwise...

Thats what I'd say (though, I wouldnt buy from you b/c your goofy ;) :beer: j/k)... I would prefer to go with a smaller company rather then a larger one because of the close Client-Staff relationships... Anyone who has experienced this with the larger companies I would be surprised... I have to nearly threaten every support staff person I have met at larger companies because they wouldnt/didnt do the right job...

At the smaller company it was always done with a smile on their face and done fast..

It's all fine and dandy to think that some small businesses may treat you better, but the chances of it actually happening are dsmall. As for client-staff relationships, even at the end of my term with Nextbox, it became very difficult to remember one client from another. I would constantly be saying "what was your domain again, what's the issue?" I provided excellent support, it just wasn't a personal relationship. After the sale was made and the client was satisfied, that was it. I can sitll remember the clients who contacted me almost daily with non-existant problems though. :P

I didnt notice that post until now. Thanks for the link to it!

In response to that, We are not resellers, we operate from our own servers, and have a dedicated support staff ready to assist our clients 24x7. I WISH I were young enough to be concidered a kiddie host!,,lol.

I guess that person just wanted to get an extra post or something!

I didnt notice that post until now. Thanks for the link to it!

In response to that, We are not resellers, we operate from our own servers, and have a dedicated support staff ready to assist our clients 24x7. Our servers are located at Liquidweb datacenter in Lansing MI. Heres an IP to ping and check out
69.16.197.84
nameservers are
ns1.my-e-space.net
ns2.my-e-space.net

I guess that person just wanted to get an extra post or something!
You know as well as I know, Anyone could have the same information that you just posted above... With 99.9% of the reseller accounts, you get IP Address's that you can turn into NS...

No, Im not doubting you.. just the information you just provider could be attained by nearly anyone (with a reseller account)

Your right, no way of proveing it I guess. But I spend a good bit of money to NOT be a reseller, and am annoyed by the fact that someone who has never been a client, never sent a pre-sales question, never contacted us at all, would post that we are a kiddie host with nothing to back it up!

HostFrog
I see you posted that, because a host doesn't have reviews that YOU have seen, the host is most likely a kiddie host? I don't see that your comment has any basis behind it? Seems to me that you are just trying to put down the competition, which is very unproffesional!

What most people don't realise is that the big hosts that are offering large disk space quotas and which are successful actually have a good, proven business model.

Godaddy for example allows you to host only 1 domain, and limited databases/email accounts. So do other proven providers who have been in business for a while

However, some start-ups have taken this concept further and made unlimited domain, unlimited database reseller accounts for low prices and huge resource allocations. This is a recipe for disaster IMHO, I can't see how such a business model would succeed in the long-run..

Overselling is something that exists in very industry. The airline industry oversells, but they do so within mathematical limits of probability. Telephone companies do so, based on usage trends. Hosting companies can do so to, provided they have put in some limits..

Overselling without limits results in higher resource usage, and poor service... No, your client isn't going to use all the disk space.. but the average usage of resources and CPU by all your clients would be certainly more

Obviously, you didn't read the post that well. I stated that I wouldn't classify you as a Kiddie Host. Please do not make me retract my statement by being heartbroke about someone posting a comment on WHT about this matter. I suggest you go back to the thread and read my post well before you come on here talking about how I am unprofessional.

I really wonder what actual serious web hosting customers would make of a conversation where hosts are arguing among themselves, calling each other "kiddie hosts"..

Sorry, the quality of discussion here is quite poor.

another way to combat overselling is to have a server ready for "outliers." If someone is using more cpu usage or bandwidth--and is actually taking advantage of your huge offer--then a good thing to do is have a robust server designed specifically for these types of users. If done right, you'll be able to fill up the servers in a way that is economically and statisically feasible. I know some of the bigger hosts have this process automated to some extent.

will have to find the ppt presentation on it.

The conclusion is that all kinds of hosts do over sell.

Kiddy's host's may make bad choices and go under. New members should ask for a trial and pay month by month not yearly thats how they take your money. However any webhosts can go under

The customer has every right to ask for a refund or to leave the host.

anyone in webhosting can make mistakes and thats how we lean from them.

All webhosting comes down too is gread and most people (web hosting or not) are like this.

Support should not judge a webhost as this may be their weakest factor however hosts should povide this.

Go with the best host you fell happy with at the end of the day its your choice

Please fell free to add any other comments

Regards,
Paul Buckley

HostFrog, the way I read it you are saying that since there are no reveiws about My-E-Space, Elix (or whatever his/her name was) is pretty safe to assume that we are kids?


Anyway, I dont know how this turned into an attack on me and my business the whole way through. All I did was voice my opinion on the rediculous actions of overselling kids in the business! And, have now been accused of this whole thing being an advertisment, being a kiddie host, and a being a bedroom host!

For the last time:
It was not an advertisment, as has been established.
I am 30 yrs old, and have been in the hosting business for over a year.
Our servers are housed at LiquidWeb datacenter in lancing MI.
No, we do not own our own datacenter, or even claim to own the servers, they are leased.

I really wonder what actual serious web hosting customers would make of a conversation where hosts are arguing among themselves, calling each other "kiddie hosts"..

Sorry, the quality of discussion here is quite poor.


That is a question I ask myself on a daily basis.

This is what its all about competition,competition should make you stronger and a better ideas man, thats what set's you apart from the other competitors, is not cheaper prices but service.which i personally think the bigger hosts cant provide...

you comment on the so called backyard hosts,but they are the ones who do provide the better service...sure you do get the fly by niter's, but the majority are the better service providers..

competition makes us better.....:-)

This thread has turned from bad to worse. 80% of hosts posting in this thread are arguing and calling the other hosts "kiddies". Who cares how old everyone is? You can get people of 30+ who still scam in this way! I've seen it happen.

I don't condone anyone under the age of 18 to start a hosting company, but please... Just stop going on about it!

If a "kiddie" host steals your sale, after a few days (weeks maybe) they will be back, and they will come to a proper host instead of going cheap. Everyone has to learn the hard way sometimes.

But I have to agree that this thread is just one big adverting stunt for my-e-space.

I really wonder what actual serious web hosting customers would make of a conversation where hosts are arguing among themselves, calling each other "kiddie hosts"..

Sorry, the quality of discussion here is quite poor.

The average member's age is quite low here hence a lot of posts are "poor quality" as you put it. But you are doing exactly what you are accusing them of yourself in this very instance. I actually think an average client would be interested to see such discussion and see certain things.

That is a question I ask myself on a daily basis.

Good for you.



Everybody is bashing this so-called "kiddie hosts", I asked thread starter to define the term. Nobody has actually accused any particular host of being "kiddie".

As far as I'm concerned thread has turned into a "poor" way to discuss unethical hosting.

I dont know what the whole purpose of this topic is besides bragging on how people hate kiddie hosts, if you people hate them so much you'd improve your services and hosting as best as possible,so you can kick kiddie host out of the hosting industry alot faster..., and the kiddie host shouldn't matter much to you since their clients will always end up with a Professional Host.

Maybe e-space is jealous :p

Kids will be kids, why bother?, just focus on your own company instead of complaining like a woman. :wink2:

I'm a Kiddie Host.

Let Google Crawl that.

I'm a Kiddie Host.

Let Google Crawl that.

Aint we all at heart :p

I have been known to give away some crazy deals just to prove a point or upset other hosts :P

First of all, there isn't really anything wrong with a reseller account. If your spending $100+ a month for a quality, fast reseller account, then what's so wrong with that? Especially if you cannot afford your own server at this time. I think resellers are a good investment until you can actually afford your own servers.

Some of the users in this thread are acting very caulky like there hosting is better. Point is, maybe some "kiddie hosts" are doing better and they're afraid. Who knows..

Sorry, the quality of discussion here is quite poor.
It is FWS, what do you expect?
(I agree 100%)

I use FWS to make friends with Colleagues (or bitter battles which are fun too).
Discuss Hosting, kind of like this thread.
Once in a while, I post offers, or I'll extend an offer.

I see FWS as being a place for ME, as a provider, NOT for making sales.

Sometimes I go off the deepend and someone says "OMG What if a customer saw you posting that!!!???"

And my reply is... "this isn't for my customers. "

Again, I dont understand how me posting about kiddie hosts and how to avoid them had anything to do with advertising, and I REALLY dont understand why/how it turned into an attack on me.
But, anyway, I have stated my case, expressed my opinion, and am now done with this thread.
Now if you guys want to continue to try and bash me and My-E-Space, have at it. I know what kind of services I offer, and so do my clients, thats all that matters :wink2:

Sorry I was just replying to ingfina

Again, I dont understand how me posting about kiddie hosts and how to avoid them had anything to do with advertising, and I REALLY dont understand why/how it turned into an attack on me.
But, anyway, I have stated my case, expressed my opinion, and am now done with this thread.
Now if you guys want to continue to try and bash me and My-E-Space, have at it. I know what kind of services I offer, and so do my clients, thats all that matters :wink2:

There you go then :-)

BTW, you might want to check 69.16.207.62 (ping), seem to be down. Just helping one host to another :wink2:

There you go then :-)



Salt in the wound? ROFL

Salt in the wound? ROFL

Salt is bitter & am not bitter :wink2:, unless its last orders :p.

But it stung LOL

But it stung LOL

I have more honey........ Buzz Buzz

how to ruin your rep. by henry clifford.
1. register on fws
2. do some blatant self promotion
3. screw with hottweelz, craig ect...
4. make stupid claims
5. be a total hypocrite.

Congratulations! You've officially failed at life!

thanks, i didn't know Lol

thanks, i didn't know Lol

IP check, I see you have friends ES (am guessing at that one) :p