Fraud Scammer - Be Aware!

[Dan]

On the 19th of Feb, I received payment for a reseller package, addon of 1GB of Transfer and a domain. I set up the account and registered the domain.

Today, I received an email from PayPal stating the account transaction was put on hold due to Unauthorised Access of a PayPal account. PayPal said that if it is proven to be spoof or fraud, they will cover the costs so I should be ok.

Here are the details of the Scammer:

Email: Svenskpopis@hotmail.com
Name: Jonte Olzone
Address:
fasagatan 4,
Harnisund, Vasternorrland, 00247
Sweden
Tel: 4646295555

They found Deise Host here: http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2182376

Please be very careful and if you are a host and are not verified with PayPal, please get Verified. You have more protection against scumbags like this.

Since this happened, we have now also registered with Maxmind Fraud Detection.

Dan

[sng]

Yea we have the same problem, but with people who rent dedicated server.
Now we are going to try to send it to a collection agency to get our money back.

[Dan]

We are now going to do Telephone Verification for all Transactions using PayPal or Credit Card via PayPal.

[Chris.S]

Yes, we have received 2 orders from him one for the highest reseller package we have and a whmcs license

[Dan]

Yes, we have received 2 orders from him one for the highest reseller package we have and a whmcs license

From the same guy?
When did this happen?

[Chris.S]

This happened yesterday thankfully he didnt auctually pay us via paypal well we didnt get a payment at all.

[Dan]

This happened yesterday thankfully he didnt auctually pay us via paypal well we didnt get a payment at all.

I sent all his details to PayPal and also reported him to his ISP.

[Richard]

Dan,

We have had 4 orders from this person. 2 domains and 2 servers. All have been setup, we are verified with paypal, and I will make sure we are covered at all angles.

Thanks for the heads up - We can prepare!

[Richard]

Also: Mindmax did not pick this up;

Distance from IP address to Address: 130
If Country of IP address matches Address: Yes
Country Code of the IP address: SE
Whether e-mail is from free e-mail provider: No
Whether IP address is Anonymous Proxy: No
Likelihood of IP Address being an Open Proxy: 0.00
ISP of the IP address: Telenor AB
IP address or billing address in high risk country: No
Fraud Risk Score: 0.06

Mindmax is useless in these situations.

[Joe.F]

Like Chris said, that order we got two days ago... it was very weird as it was in pending status for 3 days.. and MaxMind didn't catch it on our end either. Thanks for the heads up guys :)

[Eclouds]

Thanks for the heads up! Definitely something to look into. Good thing we verify all of our orders with maxmind, authorize.net fraud protection, and in some cases we check the whois information to see if they match... well I shall not disclose our latest trick ;)

[Dan]

Bleh!!

It doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong when it comes to PayPal. They just take your money anyways.
I am now left with a domain I have no use for and don't want and also down in funds because PayPal couldn't care less whether you have unpaid for goods laying on your lap.
^%£^£%&£%$&£%!!!!!!

[Eclouds]

Bleh!!

It doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong when it comes to PayPal. They just take your money anyways.
I am now left with a domain I have no use for and don't want and also down in funds because PayPal couldn't care less whether you have unpaid for goods laying on your lap.
^%£^£%&£%$&£%!!!!!!

Here is a trick for sellers using paypal:
- If user used credit card to pay and files chargeback, you are screwed because paypal will not take a loss.
- If user used direct funds to pay and files a chargeback, respond to the complaint stating it is a virtual item and there is no BUYER protection for non-tangible items. You have good chances to win that one.
- Oh and never leave funds in your paypal account.

[Dan]

Here is a trick for sellers using paypal:
- If user used credit card to pay and files chargeback, you are screwed because paypal will not take a loss.
- If user used direct funds to pay and files a chargeback, respond to the complaint stating it is a virtual item and there is no BUYER protection for non-tangible items. You have good chances to win that one.
- Oh and never leave funds in your paypal account.

Thanks for the tips.

You see, my sister has claim in DeiseHost and her CC was used to verify my PayPal account. If I don't leave funds in there, Paypal will delve into my sister's CC.

But thanks and I will take your tips on board.

Bottom line is, I am not going to let scumbags like that guy defeat my purpose of providing a good honest reliable hosting service. :D

[tumble]

Bottom line is, I am not going to let scumbags like that guy defeat my purpose of providing a good honest reliable hosting service. :D

I just like that part of your sentence is all.

[Eclouds]

Thanks for the tips.

You see, my sister has claim in DeiseHost and her CC was used to verify my PayPal account. If I don't leave funds in there, Paypal will delve into my sister's CC.

But thanks and I will take your tips on board.

Bottom line is, I am not going to let scumbags like that guy defeat my purpose of providing a good honest reliable hosting service. :D

I would have your sister cancel her credit card and ask for a new one. If the fraudulent buyer does win, paypal will try to recover the funds and your sister might get hit with the fees. Anyways i'm off to bed... too much work today oldman2

[Dan]

I would have your sister cancel her credit card and ask for a new one. If the fraudulent buyer does win, paypal will try to recover the funds and your sister might get hit with the fees. Anyways i'm off to bed... too much work today oldman2

PayPal has already taken the funds from my Account. That's why I like to have funds in there.

Tumble, what is it about that sentence you like? :D

[Darknight]

The easyest and best way to get passed this is to just ask for photo ID.
Yes anyone could steal the photo ID but the request alone scares off 90% of script kiddies.

[Chris.S]

Yes photo id is what stops most of them. We will be requiring photo id soon for any large orders.

[Eclouds]

Asking for a photo ID + utility bill would actually scare 99.9% of them and see if they are "l337" enough to steal the utility bill from their parents.

[sng]

Yea, thats one way of stopping them!!!

[Joe.F]

Listen guys, we all realize that these things are not a violation of privacy when it comes to security and fraud. Do not be afraid of requesting personal information.
When dealing with large orders that may be subject to fraud, simply request photo ID (like I do at Vetrox) or a copy of a Utility Bill to the billing address. That will usually scare the fraud perpetrator off, but if they comply - it probably isn't fraud. The last line of defense for US based fraud cases is the Social Security Number or the Employer Identification Number. This is a highly sensitive, and personal identification number. Many websites now offer a service to verify and validate social security numbers. If there ever is a time where there is a high probability of fraud, or you suspect fraud: Do not be afraid to ask for such information. If it saves you hundreds of dollars, and the potential fraud victim's money - it is worth it.

That's my two cents on the subject.

Regards,
Joe

[Darknight]

another idea with chargebacks
If you use debt colection mabye adding a small line to terms of service on your policy on charge backs witch will add a 500-1000 USD Bill on top of what they chargeback
With the right fraud protection this will stop the other 1% :)

[iLucas]

Listen guys, we all realize that these things are not a violation of privacy when it comes to security and fraud. Do not be afraid of requesting personal information.
When dealing with large orders that may be subject to fraud, simply request photo ID (like I do at Vetrox) or a copy of a Utility Bill to the billing address. That will usually scare the fraud perpetrator off, but if they comply - it probably isn't fraud. The last line of defense for US based fraud cases is the Social Security Number or the Employer Identification Number. This is a highly sensitive, and personal identification number. Many websites now offer a service to verify and validate social security numbers. If there ever is a time where there is a high probability of fraud, or you suspect fraud: Do not be afraid to ask for such information. If it saves you hundreds of dollars, and the potential fraud victim's money - it is worth it.

That's my two cents on the subject.

Regards,
Joe

You will never see me submitting my SSN to anyone online. There are too many companies out there to have to submit such personal information. I'll give you my license, and I'll give a utility bill, but requesting a SSN is absurd.

[Joe.F]

I don't request it over the internet of course! That would be absurd. No no, let me clarify. One, we won't ask for the SSN if other valid information is provided. Two, it is never requested over the internet. Only in person, or via certified mail application or encrypted fax. We highly safeguard this information, and don't request it often. After verification, your SSN is shredded 3 times over :)

Regards,
Joe

[Craig]

Fraud score SUCKS!!!, simple as that.

Just give them a call, works all the time.

[Eclouds]

Craig is also absolutely right. We got $1800 worth of fraud orders in the same day by the same person. After calling the number and doing some research on the IP it came out to be coming from a public university. They took the necessary steps.

[Blade1941]

What an idiot! Literally, he makes Swedish people look bad. Damn retard :S
Gonna post this on the Swedish sites I'm registered at look tell them about this fraud..

[iLucas]

I don't request it over the internet of course! That would be absurd. No no, let me clarify. One, we won't ask for the SSN if other valid information is provided. Two, it is never requested over the internet. Only in person, or via certified mail application or encrypted fax. We highly safeguard this information, and don't request it often. After verification, your SSN is shredded 3 times over :)

Regards,
Joe

In that case, I'd give it to you. I'd much rather give my SSN to person by phone that over the Internet, whether it's encrypted or not.

[Dan]

Just give them a call, works all the time.

Yep.
I have now put a note up on the billing system for other staff to verify all sales over 50 bucks by phone.

[Archbob]

Asking for a photo ID + utility bill would actually scare 99.9% of them and see if they are "l337" enough to steal the utility bill from their parents.

I use CC to pay for all my hosting. But the Photo ID would be a problem for me because I don't have a fax at home.

[DavidsAwesome]

Paypal buyer protection for intangible goods was touched on a little bit here... just thought i'd add something to that.


It sucks. I payed for a VPS a long time ago, before BP media even started, and the reseller went out of business and totally screwed me over. Luckily I didn't really trust him and didn't pay that much.


But back to the topic, yes fraud protection is essential for businesses in this field, as shown by the fact that he signed up with like 5 different hosts.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Dan]

I received an email back from PayPal last week and basically, in simple terms, web hosting providers are not covered by PayPal's Seller Protection Programe simply because we sell Virtually.
It sucks big time and something needs to be done in order for hosting providers to receive better protection.

[JewlzK]

I agree Dan, paypal needs to at least try and offer some type of protection for the hosting providers.

[Eclouds]

I received an email back from PayPal last week and basically, in simple terms, web hosting providers are not covered by PayPal's Seller Protection Programe simply because we sell Virtually.
It sucks big time and something needs to be done in order for hosting providers to receive better protection.

I actually called them a while back and talked to a manager about this. I asked the the pros and cons of being an online service based business using paypal. They told me pretty much, "paypal is not for you". I highly recommend businesses using paypal to think again. Paypal does not offer any protection, so you can get hit with a chargeback and lose it by default. If you get your own credit card gateway (which is what I did), the merchant provider will look at your terms of service in case of a chargeback and if you state "no refunds" they will deny it to the issuing bank.

[Dan]

I actually called them a while back and talked to a manager about this. I asked the the pros and cons of being an online service based business using paypal. They told me pretty much, "paypal is not for you". I highly recommend businesses using paypal to think again. Paypal does not offer any protection, so you can get hit with a chargeback and lose it by default. If you get your own credit card gateway (which is what I did), the merchant provider will look at your terms of service in case of a chargeback and if you state "no refunds" they will deny it to the issuing bank.

Yeah it's a crying shame to say the least, especially when a large majority of clients (genuine ones) prefer to use PayPal as a payment method. Thus, it being the main bread loader for many providers, including myself.
What PayPal is failing to see is that Virtual Goods are real goods and providers should receive equal protection, especially if they are Verified.
Like, if you are not Verified, PayPal suggests that you get verified in order to receive better protection.

[Mystikk]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think Paypal offers a paypal debit/bank account. You can use a credit card merchant and have the funds from that account withdraw into paypal.

Maybe I am wrong, just sounds like a solution for Deise.

[Dan]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think Paypal offers a paypal debit/bank account. You can use a credit card merchant and have the funds from that account withdraw into paypal.

Maybe I am wrong, just sounds like a solution for Deise.

No because, when someone files for a chargeback, whether it was fraud or not, and you haven't got the funds in PayPal, they will either give you a negative balance or will take the funds from your CC.
Either way, it sucks.
The point now is, that there is absolutely no protection for web hosters against chargebacks via PayPal simply because we sell virtual goods and services. Despite their boasting of their fantastic Seller Protection Programe when you verify with them.
This sucks even bigger!

[utcrazy]

Dan, I had a very large chargeback about 4 months ago, and paypal just decided 2 weeks ago to choose my side, because I was right all along. They are very bad at helping the right people though.

[LSComputers]

** Adds information to stopfraudnow**

This does suck, I am going to contact you guys here that say he ordered via email or pm for your email, so we can gather the documents needed to add this to SFN, Richard and I will make sure its listed to help protect others.

I would also like to agree with utcrazy, I had this happen to me as well, back when I was in the hosting business, as an owner.. very scary how somethings happen.

[Dan]

Bottom line is, PayPal needs to step up and make things a lot easier for hosting providers. Most of us depend on our business and PayPal is the main gateway for most of us. We should be included in their protection policies.

[LSComputers]

However technically we shouldnt be using paypal ;), lol, as its an non-tangelable item they dont deal with us.. question is, if you place an chargeback with softlayer or layeredtech, what happens, how is there proof? lol.

just thought of it.. but I do agree with you.

[Gipo_dinamia]

question is, if you place an chargeback with softlayer or layeredtech, what happens, how is there proof?
The proof of what?

[LSComputers]

Well because paypal does not allow non-tangible items to be sold, how does softlayer etc. have proof that the service they are offering to an client who files an charge back is legit. We need to know this to better protect ourselves.

[Eclouds]

Well, I did ask my gateway provider about all this before signing up. Apparently if there is a chargeback their chargeback department looks over at our terms of service and looks at the "no refund" part and denies the chargeback to the issuing bank.

[LSComputers]

;) whos your gateway, lol

[Svenskpopis]

well.. wtf is this?.. what's the IP?

[LSComputers]

Svenskpopis? why is there the need for the language or the return of an old thread which was started in February and ended in March, I think its lived long enough.

Email: Svenskpopis@hotmail.com
Name: Jonte Olzone
Address:
fasagatan 4,
Harnisund, Vasternorrland, 00247
Sweden
Tel: 4646295555

Thats all Dan was able to provide, and humm was this you?

[Dan]

I will close this thread now.

Svenskpopis, count yourself lucky you are not getting a warning for that post