2 things.. Whats the deal?? and What to do with it?

[fnixws]

PART 1: WHATS THE DEAL HERE??? :P

Ok, so theres a whole ----load of people around here all offering hosting of various levels.

However having been around for a littel whole now, i see that PersonA buys from PersonB and sells to personC who sells to personD.

Then PersonA, B and C all try and compete offering smaller packages to other people. With PersonC often undercuting the people they buy from.

So, i want to know who is the top dog, the head honcho, the big cheese?
Basically where does the line of "hosts" end?

I wish to change to a different host but I do not want to buy from PersonC who already bought from PersonB who Buys from PersonA.

Its like trying to buy pure Cocain that The Colombians Cut with sugar, then the American importer cuts it with salt, and then your Local Dealer cuts it with Talc... I WANT THE PURE!

So whos the be all and end all as far as this goes around here?? :P

--------------------------------------------------------------------

PART2: WHAT TO DO WITH IT?

Ok, so i have a Dedicated server with OLM, ive had it for a while now, but its nolonger used for what it was. My old game servers.

ATM its not doing much of anything but wasting my money.
Its running Windows server.
2gig Ram, Only 60gig Hdd tho, 100mbps connection, 3500gig Per month bandwidth.

What do i do with it??
Id like to setup my hosting service from there directly, but i have no idea really where to begin. I have never been abel to get Windows Internet Services running correctly. Sure i can get it to MOSTLY work, but getting php5 and MYSQL running is a -----.

Any other suggestions or onyone know how to set this up and can help me out??

Thanks in advance.
Fenix.

[Corazu]

Well you want to go straight to the datacenters, ie: the planet.

[DanTheMan]

Agreed go the the big cheese, the dc. One is the Planet

Two: You wanna use centos because you can do more than windows. :D

[fnixws]

well.. i dont nesecarly want to goto to the big cheese, but preferaby them or someone who buys direct from them.

The further you are down the food chain, the more likely someone elses mess will screw you over. If any of the companies above you fold / die, then they take you with them. And this i hope to aviod...



mmm.. I dont want to change OS.. i have this server for a rediculous cheap price. $44 per month with Windows. If i get them poking their noses in and playing with things, it gives them an excuse to change the price. So im determined to use Windows for this.

I just need someone who actually know about how to setup windows for this :D

[Decker]

So is it hosting or coke your after???

Try http://www.gnax.com/dedicatedservers/index.php

GNAX datacenter, I've used it and it's the best I've ever found - albeit really expensive comapred to some.

Look up DC's and see who sells through them.

Plus your post above sort of gives the game away - your looking for silly cheap hosting with no questions asked about where it comes from, including licenses.....

[fnixws]

I resent that, i think you have the complete wrong idea!

The reson i have the other one cheap is because they basically screwed me over on the initial setup. As a result in the end, i got a hefty discount, a discount thats remained to this day :P

What i was looking for is a reliable provider. As i said, the higher up you go, the less people you have to deal with in order to get somthing done and the less chance there is of some company above you on the food chain dieing and taking you with them.

Why? Because i see my current host going down the tubes and i dont want them to take me with them!

[Decker]

Truth hurts eh!

Truth is the web hosting 'food chain' is a myth.

If you found out your home was going to be under 10 feet of water in a month what do you do? You move house.

Hosts at any level can secure their clients if they work wisely.

I agree that a reseller of a reseller of a ..... is not a good host - too many others to screw up.

So we haven't found out yet is it hosting or coke your after? :P

My current one for a VPS that I use is good - they know they are having issues and are dealing with them, I maintain dedicateds for other clients of mine and do the same.

So you need that 'good' host out of many (and there are more than the bad ones).

[fnixws]

Well no, because its not the truth :P

fact is i can get the same server with linux for the same price, but not with windows, so im reluctant to change it.

I dont know if its a myth. I mean, i never really "heard" it from anywhere. Its somthing ive come up with just from my own minor experience. And since too me it seems my host MAY not be the best around and may possibly die soon as with many others, im was just making a thread to get more information on the subject.

Who better to ask than the "experts" we have hanging around here :P




Now... On to the WINDOWS ISSUE!

Anyone who can help me out here?? Please??

[Decker]

Ok, if you can't work out IIS (and associated installs to make it work) then don't host. (wait till you can)
OR
Pay someone to do it for you, as in a server admin.

Sorry to be blunt but you did ask :)

[fnixws]

Nice bad attitude you have there Decker.... After you initial comments implying i want pirated licences i was still nice, but you cant help try make me look like a moron..

How does one Learn? Experience.

I can read 100 books and 1000 websites (and i probly come close to that total) and it still will make no difference.
Fact is not many people can use ISS properly. Because its ---- and most people dont use it.
I have asked this question here before and as usual i get the same replies of "change to linux" and "lol windows" or "dont host if u cant use it"

Why? Because most people dont know anything about ISS and rather than just admit it or keep their mouths shut, they would rather make smartass comments to cover up their shortcommings.

This forum has 80,000 members. Most likely not even 1% of them can get ISS to work correctly, and i doubt you can either.



Problems not really with ISS either. Its with the php5 installer. It never installs correctly. Sure it says its installed, but php extentions do not work and the second you open a php file (via the "website") It causes a whole bunch of errors in windows about how it cannot execute that file type.

And im not the only one either. ISS configuration is a huge headache for alot of people, so next time you want to make smartass comments implying my stupidity, how about you think.. "can i do it" if the answer is no, the STFU. If the answer is yes, then theres no need to be a smartass, help a guy out.

Even the host (OLM.net) have no idea what to do. So if you want me to hire them to set it up, its not going to happen. They informed me hosting through windows was hard to setup, and advised me to to change to a linux distro. I dont care if its hard. If i never do it, i will never learn it. Whats so hard to understand about that??

Isnt this supposed to be a community where people come for advice on this subject? Then either help or STFU!
Thanks to your dodgy post, i doubt ill get an answer from anyone esle now!

Oh and sorry for being so harsh, but ive spent a long time trying to get it setup over the last few months. I give up and start again now and then. For once i was hoping for some useful information, and i didnt really expect such an attitude from a prominent member of this community :(

[DavidsAwesome]

This forum has 80,000 members. Most likely not even 1% of them can get ISS to work correctly.

Most of those 80k are using linux servers.

As for the "reseller of a reseller of a reseller" thing... I have no problem buying from someone who's reselling from a DC. As long as someone knows what they're doing, everything will work out fine. The problem comes when theres a huge chain of people, and only one or two of them know whats going on. And if this market wasn't so damn competitive, people could actually trust their host, and pay a decent amount for hosting. (I love how customers feel like they own you because they're paying $5 per month.... less than I spend on lunch every day.... Don't get me wrong, they're all extremely important to me, but I don't care much for the rudeness)

[fnixws]

Yes David, i know most people are using Linux. I was hoping one of the Rare people who actually can use ISS can help me out. But i get the usual reply...

I agree, i have no real problem buying from a reseller if a reseller, but as a matter of preference, id prefer to go straight to the top. If my current host fails, the i intend to go higher up next time.

Best to do this research / ask the questions now, than in 3 months when theres a disaster, and i am unprepared and rush across to another host, only to have the same happen.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying my current host is absoloutly terrible, they are new, and young and have plenty to learn, Fact is, so do I. I just want to be prepared.

[[JSH]John]

Hi Fnixws,

Which Windows OS are you running? IIS may seem quite difficult but there are a lot of articles about setting up IIS. I prefer IIS 7 which is on Windows Server 2008 as well as Windows Vista, it's a lot easier but I'm sure it's not too difficult for us to help you with 2003.

If you'd prefer to use Apache (what most Linux users prefer) then you'll be happy to know that you could get an installer that will install Apache (Web Server), PHP5, MySQL and other small applications to help you monitor the services.

A few WAMP installers:
http://www.wampserver.com/en/
http://www.uniformserver.com/

I hope this post does help you a bit. :)

[fnixws]

John actually i already have a WAMP installed. It works fine. But can you find a hosting controll panel that works on Windows with anything but ISS?

Im running Server2003 By the way, but I also have a "dedicated server" machine here at home that runs Windows2000 i have been playing around with to learn (before i ruin the other lol). Its got the exact same specs as the 2003 meachine, but only 1 gig ram.

Sure i can use a php script, but they are rediculously limited, mostly limiting you to subdirectory hosting with no SQL or any other features.

CubePanel worked well actually, It was a COMPLETE pain in the --- to get working, but once it was working, it did its job quiet well.
It disables ISS and installs its own package. Unfortunatly it had a back door and next thing i know a hispanic hacker made his way in and deleted everything :/
Zpanel has some issues too, tho i cant quiet remember what.
Saccrus seems to have gone out of business.

I might just give Cube another try, provided they have fixed their issues.

[Meksilon]

This is what you want:

1. Buy your own 1U server and rent 1U space at the datacentre.
2. Rent a server from the datacentre -or- rent a 1U server from a webhost who rents their datacentre rack space but owns their equipment.

Simple.

[fnixws]

Thanks Meksilon, but we kind of past that issue about 4 posts ago.. :P

Know anything about Windows ISS?? :D

[Corazu]

Well, your best bet in regards to the IIS, is to find a server admin/tech who knows how to work with it, and pay him to guide you through it via a remote session so you can watch and ask questions. You may end up paying a great deal more than it would for him to set it up by himself, but at least you'd learn it.

That's sort of a last plan of action if you can't figure it out from tutorials..if you can find one with a video you should be able to get the hang of it.

Good luck with it, I personally prefer linux for servers, and even with windows I'd prefer apache. Interesting issue with the control panel, I never figured there'd be a shortage of windows panel's for apache.

[fnixws]

Well thats kind of the plan. I was hoping somebody here would have some experience. If possible id just like to know someone who doesnt mind the occasions MSN harassment :P
Unfortunatly, with the prevalence of Linux among people in the business, its hard to find these kind of people. With ISS knowlege that is.

1 thing tho is the fact, and yes i can admit it, im not the best reader.
I have trouble absorbing information from a written format.
Show me somthing and ill master it in no time, but give me a book and im screwed.
So you suggestion of videos is a good one, if i can find them :P

CubePanel used Apache insted of ISS, im sure many of the others do too. In total i have tried probly 6 maybe 7 and had problems with everything ranging from install issues to hackers to a virus infected copy of MySQL from the MYSQL site :S


Seeking 1x Windows server GuRu to act as Mentor!
mmm... perhaps i should start a post in advertisment :P

[Meksilon]

Thanks Meksilon, but we kind of past that issue about 4 posts ago.. :P
Well, I thought I'd bring this topic back on-topic. Buy your own server, set it up how you want, and deliver it to the datacentre and pay for collocation. Simple, done.

-edit- By the way you may be able to get collocation cheaper through a host there though, since the datacentre charges yay much for 1U space, and less per unit-height for entire racks, so the host could rent you part of their rack cheaper then directly from the datacentre probably.

[fnixws]

I was just kidding man, no need to take offecnce. I rep+ you for your comment :/

Whats that got to do with anything..

Topic is Windows ISS. Not purchasing hardware and sending it to a data center, what kind of dill would actually do that? I mean for just 1 server anyway?? I doubt its equitable.


So.. back to the topic :P

Seeking 1x Windows server GuRu to act as Mentor! :P

[Meksilon]

I wasn't taking offense - sorry if I conveyed that. If the host can't set up IIS (you do mean IIS, right?) for you then you'd probably just want to get your own tech in to set it up. Easy to do if you own the server, but yeah I imagine colo prices can turn people off that option.

[Decker]

fnixws, I didin't mean to come across as BA but at the mo to get started my suggestion to pay a server admin to get it up and working would still stand as your best option at the moment.

IIS is overcomplicated for what it does (and FYI I've setup and managed hundereds in my time). You need to get a solid grip on AD and/or NT file permissions first of all, then MS DNS/WINS then move onto IIS (assume that MS networking is already covered before those).

Once you've got to IIS then set it up to server a simple site and make sure you can't break it or hack it - by this time you've covered the previous points hopefully :)

Don't get overconfused by it and try and use the other services that come with it like FTP & Mail, waste of time (for FTP I usually use the WarFTP Deamon, simple and light).

Next bit you'll just love, check MS Technet for your version of IIS and php/MySQL setups, some of the developers have came up with very neat ways to do it reliably and give good direction on securing it as you go.

Try and avoid a control panel till you've done all this as if it's broke before you install a CP then it will still be broke after.

Finding someone to talk you though it on an IM might be a problem as it's a sight unseen so you would need to grant full RDC access to them to examine the system first, and may be as well with a fresh install of the OS rather than try to fix it.

[fnixws]

No problem Decker. I have a short fuse anyway :P

I was playing with it again yesterday. IIS works, just PHP doesnt.
I followed 3 different guides for seting up php. When I attempt to view a php (even just phpinfo) it either says "page not found" "service unavalible" or shows the contents of the php file :/
In all cases a HTML file in the same folder is always accessable.

Granting someone full RDC doesnt bother me. ATM theres not much they can do other than change my password, and if anyones ------- enough to do that, i should be abel to reset it via the site or whining emails :P

Ill check out Technet as you suggested, and ye, with the ammount of times ive tried this, im sure the windows config is screwed up by now :S

[Decker]

See if you can get them do do a system rebuild, then start all over again :D

Saves a world of hurt.

[fnixws]

Argh!!
Looks like MS dont like PHP. Their section on it consists of about a paragraph and a link to the php site to get more information... :S
Their "section" on migration covers only ISS 5 in Win2k. the 2003 section says to check php.net.

[Decker]

Time to kick yourself again

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=install+php+in+iis&meta=

Enough on the first page to get it up and running easily - as long as IIS isn't screwed :)

[fnixws]

lol.. all those links except one are purple :P

I just finished installing it yet again from scratch, following yet another guide and of course same crap....

I guess IIS is screwed.. #@$* YOU MICROSOFT!

EDIT: Typical For even more of a slap in the face, i just got it working in IIS 5.0 on my dodgy home server in under 15 min :S

[Decker]

Hehe - get the bloody thing rebuilt :)