MP3-linking site, is it legal?

[Secret]

One of my member used his hosting account to make an "index" with rating function of collection of links to mp3 files (which I believe is illegal to be distributed) on esnips.com

If you would like to take a look at his site, it's http://get-tuned.co.uk

Please help me, I need your advice, is this site illegal (at least in the US & UK)? If yes, can you give me some explanation/something to prove? And is it safe (for me, as a free hosting provider) to allow this kind of site? He insisted that his site is 100% legal because the MP3 files is not hosted in our server.

Thanks.

[NullZero1337]

Although I'm not sure whether the site is legal (it is most likely for deep-linking, I'm pretty sure eSnips isn't legal, even if they insist they are not:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56595 - Illegal hosting of eBooks

http://weblog.ipcentral.info/archives/2007/02/the_growing_thr_1.html#more

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071119212331AA2Vdhl - eSnips hosting music

http://www.dnforum.com/f60/mp3-wma-download-site-fully-automated-legal-amazing-new-script-only-29-99-a-thread-264302.html -scroll down :o

Is Linking Illegal: http://partners.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/06/cyber/cyberlaw/16law.html

[Decker]

is this site illegal (at least in the US & UK)?

Not legal! Definately not in the UK as a UK individual having registered a UK domain name they fall under UK law and as such I'm sure the boys from Oasis would like his address. US might have other factors but it would still be a no-no. I doubt esnips is paying for that material either.


He insisted that his site is 100% legal because the MP3 files is not hosted in our server.

Frankly, that's the age old bollocks they tend to rely on others believing, it is not legal due to this, as they are distributing/making available the means to download copyrighted material.

Example, guy wants new xyz CD so asks mate, mate says no problem I don't have it in my shop but I'll pop along the road and shoplift it for you! - Any questions? :)

[fnixws]

Its not illegal, however the owner of TV-Links.co.uk might disagree with me there.

He was arrested for linking Videos on Google Video, Stage 6, You Tube and many other video sharing sites.

The owners of the sites actually hosting the vids got away with out even being questioned because they are large corperations, but this small time guy from England gets arrested and has his site shut down.

He was released without charge, why? Because he didnt do anything illegal, however the site was still shutdown.

In anyone should have been arrested, it should have been the people who run Google Video and Stage 6, who between them hosted over 70% of the content on the site...

[Dark Matter]

Well in music sharing the sharer gets "done" the most then the downloader. both you still can get fined for and is against the law. but the sharer is the worst.

So i would say if your provide links to mp3 downloads that would kinda class you as the sharer right cos your sharing somewhere you can get access to an illegal copy of music.

[DanTheMan]

It's just like telling someone where to get crack from. That is if your a US citizen in the US. Where crack is illegal. Don't you think the cops will get you for that too?


But linking it is legal. As the host you have the final word of whats on your server or not. You also determine it based on where your server is located.


Look at the bottom of the site: This site is 100% legal as the files are NOT hosted by us!

Not really, take a warez board for example, you host them, they post links to rapidshare.com

Ok so they don't host the files, but isn't a warez board illegal?

[fnixws]

Dan.. Its not illegal to tell someone "the guy down the street sells crack" you cannot be arrested for that in the US...

Unless they have recently passes some new US and UK laws, linking is not illegal, infact the entire internet is based on linking from one site to another.

I challenge anyone to find me the specific laws against linking.

The issue is controversial at best, but its one of those issues where they WANT you to think its illegal when its not. Just like Blizard attempting to Persue private WoW servers run with Emulators.

But as Dan said


As the host you have the final word of whats on your server or not.

Kill the site, it may save you some avoidable trouble in the long run.

[Decker]

Dan.. Its not illegal to tell someone "the guy down the street sells crack"
I challenge anyone to find me the specific laws against linking.

The issue is controversial at best, but its one of those issues where they WANT you to think its illegal when its not. Just like Blizard attempting to Persue private WoW servers run with Emulators.

Did you miss the actual legal issue here (yep it is) - Its not illegal to tell someone "the guy down the street sells crack" - you just aided and abeited a crime, became a dealer, unless you are reporting it (or just mumbling to your friends without cause to buy).

For
I challenge anyone to find me the specific laws against linking.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=laws+against+linking+to+copyright+material&meta=

Make some of the query different and it changes - a lot to FWS for some reason?

[Decker]

Oh and WoW servers with emulators is okay, you make me me laugh!

Ask my son in law (a prison officer) if paying is fine while everyone else cheats (WoW is his game, a serious player, he pays for it - hope you never get caught and end up in his wing).

[fnixws]

hmmm.. well it appears its different in every state in the US and mostly to do with knowloege of the material linked to being illegal or not.
However im finding some interesting lil snippets.


Copyright Act does not expressly render anyone liable for infringement committed by another.
As a webhost, you shouldnt be liable, but apparently you are...


Importantly, there can be no contributory infringement unless there is an actual direct infringement by a third party. Where a party is implicated in copyright infringement, yet has not precipitated the acts required for a direct infringement claim, contributory infringement may be the proper vehicle for assessing liability.
Again it appears unless you intentionally helped him, your fine and therefore its possible for hosts to claim ignorance. Tho apparently you cant...

Unfortunatly most cases im seeing against linking are cases Judged by Old Judges who know nothing about how the internet works, wich doesnt make it any less illegal, just stupid to allow people with no knowlege of the internet to make such decisions. eg.


U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay in the northern district of Texas granted a preliminary injunction against Robert Davis, who operated Supercrosslive.com and had been providing direct links to the live audiocasts of motorcycle racing events.
So its illegal in Texas to provide a link to another site, even if its the Authors site who provide the materials free. He wasnt even deep linking :S
However a Judge in Indianna rules:

Linking to materials that are available on the Internet or in databases is feasible, efficient, and legal without raising significant copyright questions.

Seems to be a much bigger issue than i realised. To me, simple links too offsite material are fine unless you are organising the content on the external server (ie uploading it to rapid share).

Fact is tho, youve posted it here, your aware of the activities, so as i said before, to save yourself the trouble, kill the account..




EDIT: As for WoW Servers. Emulation has been around for years and is not Illegal, just check out all the console emulators around.
The methods for creating those emulators are what make it illegal or not, but as long as the emulator is not reveres engineered, theres nothing wrong with it.
Blizzard has even added to their TOS that you cant use their software to play on emulated servers. Its apparently the only leg they have to stand on in this matter.

P.S. I dont play WoW, but do i look like id be scared of some Prison officer?? :P

[Decker]

Oh for fecks sake!

Why are you trying so hard to prove it's okay as a host?

Are you selling drugs too?

[fnixws]

Learn to read... or perhaps learn to understand Australian lol

Im not trying to prove it at all, im simply stating its a controversial issue with no CLEAR ruling either way.

EDIT: Proof of this is basically before reading all this im reading now (and read over the last hr) Its likely if i was hosting that site, id have let it be. Now, id delete it.

[Decker]

Learn to read... or perhaps learn to understand Australian lol

Im not trying to prove it at all, im simply stating its a controversial issue with no CLEAR ruling either way.

EDIT: Proof of this is basically before reading all this im reading now (and read over the last hr) Its likely if i was hosting that site, id have let it be. Now, id delete it.


Huh? Me I'm going for a kip.

[fnixws]

hehe, no problem dude.

BTW, i wasnt trying to be rude or mean or offensive or anything.

Fact is, you opened my eyes a littel more to the confussion and contradiction reguarding the issue.

For example, ive always basically believed that its completely fine to link to someone elses site.
Now it appears to link to another site AT ALL (weather content is legal or not) could be a violation of their copyrights if they decide to sue. And thats just ridiculous.

[Secret]

Ok, I really appreciate all of your opinion. I think I should follow Dan's suggestion:

As the host you have the final word of whats on your server or not.
(meaning: I have full control)

and as what dark-matter said:

Well in music sharing the sharer gets "done" the most then the downloader. both you still can get fined for and is against the law. but the sharer is the worst.
(meaning: I will receive some portion :) )

and to avoid fnixws's story from happening again (to me):

Unfortunatly most cases im seeing against linking are cases Judged by Old Judges who know nothing about how the internet works, wich doesnt make it any less illegal, just stupid to allow people with no knowlege of the internet to make such decisions. eg.
(meaning: arrested for being such a stupid person to keep hosting such a site :cry2: )

So, my conclusion is:
It's better to be safe than sorry :D

Site Suspended. Rules(AUP/TOS) will be changed/updated. The member is required to remove the links if he still wants the hosting account.

Thanks for your help.

[DanTheMan]

Yupp no problem, hope everything works out fine and your client understands lol

[JasonS]

Hey,

Looks VERY similar to www.musiclemon.com for some reason...