What would you do?

[JasonS]

Hey guys,

Well, JaguarPC aren't happy at the moment about the vpswow name because they have the wowvps one. They've said the following to Karl ;


Karl, your company is infringing upon mine and you've been warned about this numerous times. You do not have our permission to use our company name or any derivative of it . You need to get with me and either work something out, or quite simply I will take this and you to court. Since my private attempts to reach and deal with you seem to meet deaf ears, Im using this as a last approach. Im sure our lawyers wont be nearly as friendly. Lets address this in an amicable manner.

Could anyone shed some light on where we would stand with this please because WHT simply support JaguarPC and I'd rather get opinions from you guys who don't side with people as much.

With Thanks,
Jason S

[iBrightDev]

already told you on MSN, he cant do anything to you legally.

[James]

This is an issue of branding and domain names. Wowvps Vs Vpswow right? To me it's not that clear whether they have such a 100% clean cut case. My suggestion is to post this on a forum where there are domain business experts - DNForum and Namepros. They have a forum for legal issues with domains such as this one. Don't take any rash decisions until you get some good advice.

[JasonS]

This is an issue of branding and domain names. Wowvps Vs Vpswow right? To me it's not that clear whether they have such a 100% clean cut case. My suggestion is to post this on a forum where there are domain business experts - DNForum and Namepros. They have a forum for legal issues with domains such as this one. Don't take any rash decisions until you get some good advice.

Tried going onto DNForum but you have to pay to use the legal advice section, which blows.

[James]

WHT simply support JaguarPC

Hey, there are a number of objective people too at WHT :cool2: What might be interesting to know is which WOW vps business started trading first. Is wowvps.com trademarks? What are the exact legal grounds they threaten you with?

[iBrightDev]

James, trademark would only hold water in the USA. to get trademarked, in another country like the UK, Jag would have to have a business location there too. not only that, the name is NOT trademarked in the USA or UK, so, legally, Jag cant do anything about it. I have already looked into this stuff for my business, that is why I am telling you. so, really, Jason, dont even worry about it. if you want to change the name anyways, then go for it, but, like i told you earlier, dont do it cause you are being bullied.

[JasonS]

Hey, there are a number of objective people too at WHT :cool2: What might be interesting to know is which WOW vps business started trading first. Is wowvps.com trademarks? What are the exact legal grounds they threaten you with?

Hey,

WOWVPS.com was registered a year or so ago according to Jag and they released early May whereas we released in early June.

They haven't stated any specific legal grounds.

[Technics]

Jason, try over at www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk - There's a large number of legal bod's on that site and they may be able to help you.

Personally, I'd just re-brand because if the other provider for any reason get's negative reviews the average end user may get you confussed and you then loose a customer.

Good luck though.

[JasonS]

Jason, try over at www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk - There's a large number of legal bod's on that site and they may be able to help you.

Personally, I'd just re-brand because if the other provider for any reason get's negative reviews the average end user may get you confussed and you then loose a customer.

Good luck though.

Have now done this, just hoping it gets me somewhere! :)

[TSO]

Jason, the folks at JaguarPC are $&@#@'s. I dealt with them in the past when I used to order servers there. Horrible, self-centered people, they are. Anyway, I don't think they really have a case against you - I would ignore them, if I were you. However, I would also consult with a lawyer to be sure of where you stand on this.

[JasonS]

Hey,

Thanks for the advice and support guys. The only problem is that WHT support Jag on this one, which could be really bad for business;

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=733876

[Technics]

If your basing things on what people on WHT think your doomed, It's a large forum - Yes - But it's not the most important place in the world.

Concentrate on what you do best - Make decisions based on what you believe is for the best - Not what people think or post on WHT.

[JasonS]

If your basing things on what people on WHT think your doomed, It's a large forum - Yes - But it's not the most important place in the world.

Concentrate on what you do best - Make decisions based on what you believe is for the best - Not what people think or post on WHT.

Personally, next to no clients come from WHT yet we are stable. So I suppose you are right. Thanks for the encouragement :)

[T^2]

Here's what I'd do:

1) Figure out if Jag has anything to back up its empty threats (if they have copyright or anything at all) - take into consideration that the 2 sites are based in different countries, and laws have a hard time swimming across oceans.

2) If they do not, and that seems to be the case, and if you are worried about WHT then on that thread just tell him to go ahead and "take you to court" and leave it at that. The ball's then in his court as he can either 1) look like a fool because his bluff has been called or 2) try to take you to court with nothing to back it up. Either way you win.

If you have some legal details and issues that you need help with let me know and I'll see if I can help you out.

And as a general rule, if a party can't win $30,000 in a law suit then there's no point to do it.

[Volt.Networks]

If their name hasn't been legally registered yet, then go get yours trademarked and call his bluff about going to court. :lol:

[JasonS]

If their name hasn't been legally registered yet, then go get yours trademarked and call his bluff about going to court. :lol:

I'm considering registering vpswow Ltd, then there's not a thing he can do since Companies House have passed it.

[JasonS]

Theres actually no fair side on it from us. Your not rebranding for me,
your doing it for yourself. You were aware of this before you conducted
business in the manner you did. Im trying to be nice about it though
but dont mistake my generosity as weakness. Having said that, I'll
consider it a domain purchase, allbeit an unnecessary one. Please push
the domain to me and I'll paypal you the $40 to get you where ever. Id like
to get a followup by you in public to acknowledge the rebranding on your
part and our offering of the new domain and $40 to help you with it.
Lets turn this ugly mess into a positive for everyone and move on with
our lives. In short , paint us as the good guys we are, and you as the
cooperative ones you've become

Best Regards,

Greg L.
JaguarPC.com - CEO
greg@jaguarpc.com
www.JaguarPC.com

Is he taking the ----ing piss?

[[JSH]John]

I guess he's realised he can't do anything, so he's hoping you'll sell the domain to him for $40? I wouldn't accept the offer because he can't do anything to you and there's no way of knowing if he'll actually send you the money.

[Dynash]

In short , paint us as the good guys we are, and you as the
cooperative ones you've become


Ironic, he's the one FORCING you to give up your domain on no legal basis.

[JasonS]

John;1033227']I guess he's realised he can't do anything, so he's hoping you'll sell the domain to him for $40? I wouldn't accept the offer because he can't do anything to you and there's no way of knowing if he'll actually send you the money.

That's a good point, but what if on the other hand, he CAN do something? Some semi-legal opinions were ;


They have a common law trademark at least for wowvps for hosting. Whether
it can cause likelihood of confusion or not really depends on them to prove it.

Talk to a lawyer.


Definitely get an appointment to talk with a lawyer asap. Like Dave said its on them to prove confusion or likely confusion.

Chances are they can claim common law tm... whether it will be enough to udrp successfully, that's another story. The domains do use the same words just reversed...


have you considered selling them the name?
for a reasonable price
save grief and legal expenses

Cheers
Corey

But they're offering only $40 and I can't afford a lawyer if he does have 'some' sort of ground.

[Dynash]

Can't you ask Citizens Advice?

[iBrightDev]

Jason, if there is no trademark with the US Trademark offices, he cant do anything. also, he would need to have one in the UK too, like i said before, and that is cause trademarks are not global. just per country.so, he really cant do anything. you are worrying way to much. if you want to re-brand anyways, then go for it, since you would do it with or without him buying it, but, if you want to keep it, then do so.

[JasonS]

Jason, if there is no trademark with the US Trademark offices, he cant do anything. also, he would need to have one in the UK too, like i said before, and that is cause trademarks are not global. just per country.so, he really cant do anything. you are worrying way to much. if you want to re-brand anyways, then go for it, since you would do it with or without him buying it, but, if you want to keep it, then do so.

Hey,

I'm worrying because he said on AIM that he could claim upto $30k, so what am I meant to be doing? Sitting here and laughing at him ;l

[iBrightDev]

yes, laugh right at him. he cant do anything. dude, you live in the UK, not the US. for him to try anything, you would not only have to live in the US, but, whatever state he is in since it is not a trademarked name. if it is a registered business name, then he could only do something if you are in the same state. you arent, so, f*ck him.

[James]

Did you get any answers from him on the solid legal grounds he's basing his demand on?

Personally I think 40 dollars is bit of a joke, basically saying to you - "Here is some pocket money kid. Be a good boy."

[Technics]

40 X 10 and i'd take the deal :)

However, take into account the amount of time your spending on this issue - is the domain name really worth that amount of time? Think about it - How much do you think your time is worth per hour? then work out how many hours you've spent dealing with this and if the time out weighs the money - get him to up his money as said above x10.

He can sue you if he want's but I doubt he will - the cost to sue someone overseas is very large. It could be a lot of outlay for nothing in return as most judges here would ask for patents or copyrights and without that he'd have a large legal bill and nothing to show for it.

I'd personally sell the domain at x10 of the amount offerred and re-brand, afterall if he's so keen on the domain and is willing to waste his time chasing it i'd make some money like cyber squatters do :)

[JasonS]

Did you get any answers from him on the solid legal grounds he's basing his demand on?

Personally I think 40 dollars is bit of a joke, basically saying to you - "Here is some pocket money kid. Be a good boy."

It is a piss take.


40 X 10 and i'd take the deal :)

However, take into account the amount of time your spending on this issue - is the domain name really worth that amount of time? Think about it - How much do you think your time is worth per hour? then work out how many hours you've spent dealing with this and if the time out weighs the money - get him to up his money as said above x10.

He can sue you if he want's but I doubt he will - the cost to sue someone overseas is very large. It could be a lot of outlay for nothing in return as most judges here would ask for patents or copyrights and without that he'd have a large legal bill and nothing to show for it.

I'd personally sell the domain at x10 of the amount offerred and re-brand, afterall if he's so keen on the domain and is willing to waste his time chasing it i'd make some money like cyber squatters do :)

I'd accept 10x that but I think by his statement at the start of the e-mail, I doubt he will.

[T^2]

Here's what I think:

There is almost no way he can get $30,000 in damages/reward even if this went to court for a few reasons. And don't be confused when he says that he can sue for $30,000 because I can sue anyone for anything; but that doesn't mean I'll actually get that much even if I won.

He will most likely sue you under tort for damages which would include sales that he lost to you for confusion and you taking advantage of his goodwill and what not. He would need to PROVE that he indeed lost clients and revenue from this confusion, something that is very difficult to do.

For the time being, you do not need to do anything until he -actually- sues you and informs you with legal documentation that he has begun to sue you. When he does begin to sue you, you will have a chance to offer him a settlement out side of court and if he refuses a reasonable offer then in court the judge will most likely rule him as failing to settle and accepting a reasonable offer and throw it out. The process of taking someone to court is an extremely long and tedious road which not many people want to go under.

[Technics]

I'd accept 10x that but I think by his statement at the start of the e-mail, I doubt he will.

Make the offer, what's the worst he can say? no?

[JasonS]

Make the offer, what's the worst he can say? no?

Yes, but I SERIOUSLY can't afford to get a lawyer and go to court.

[Technics]

I doubt it would ever goto court.

At least try barter on the price.

[JasonS]

I doubt it would ever goto court.

At least try barter on the price.

If I said $250 to him, would he be an idiot not to accept? :)

[T^2]

You don't need to do anything until he actually gives you a legal notice of the fact that he is taking you to court.

[JasonS]

You don't need to do anything until he actually gives you a legal notice of the fact that he is taking you to court.

Do you think it will get to that stage though?

[T^2]

Do you think it will get to that stage though?

That is completely up to him. I can choose to start a law suit against anyone I wanted with or without proof or anything.

But like I said, once he gives you legal notice then you can offer to settle outside of court.

[JasonS]

That is completely up to him. I can choose to start a law suit against anyone I wanted with or without proof or anything.

But like I said, once he gives you legal notice then you can offer to settle outside of court.

I understand that, but do any of you THINK that he might actually do it, or is he bluffing?

[Dynash]

I doubt he will, he's just trying to put the shivers down your spine - why do you think he made you an offer of $40?

[JasonS]

I doubt he will, he's just trying to put the shivers down your spine - why do you think he made you an offer of $40?

Let's hope so eh? :)

[Technics]

It's becoming a bigger issue than it needs to be, Tell him if he wants you to rebrand and co-operate then he has to co-operate also and compensate for time spent developing your brand. $400 or go away.

Then ignore all threats, and wait to see if court papers turn up on your doorstep.

[JasonS]

It's becoming a bigger issue than it needs to be, Tell him if he wants you to rebrand and co-operate then he has to co-operate also and compensate for time spent developing your brand. $400 or go away.

Then ignore all threats, and wait to see if court papers turn up on your doorstep.

Hey,

Okay haha, should I just say that after seeking further advice and some legal confidence, we'd request $400.00 in order for us to re-brand vpswow. ?

[Dynash]

Just keep it short and sweet.

"I have thought over your offer, and I decline. I'm looking for at least $400 as a minimum bid for the domain. If we cannot come to an agreement, I will keep the domain, and brand name."

[JasonS]

Just keep it short and sweet.

"I have thought over your offer, and I decline. I'm looking for at least $400 as a minimum bid for the domain. If we cannot come to an agreement, I will keep the domain, and brand name."

Hello Greg

We have thought over your offer and received further legal advice, and we decline. We're looking for at least $450 as a minimum for the domain. If we cannot come to an agreement, we will keep the domain, and brand name.

With the legal advice we have received, we have been told that as wowvps is NOT a registered trademark in any country, there is no further grounds that you would stand apart from loss of business which would be very hard to prove.

As to your statement before about abusing your generosity, we do not feel this is abusing. But after checking out the costs of the re-brand, we are going to be losing a decent alexa ranking and the many hits that come through the website. So we have considered the costs of the re-design and to fully re-advertise the new brand name. We feel that $450.00 is enough to settle this.

With Thanks,
Jason Scales
Chief Executive Officer
WOW Technologies UK

How does that sound?

[Dynash]

Sounds okay :thumbsup

[MicGoogle]

After reading the thread,

Dude you my man YOU AIMED TOO LOW!!
$450 are you kidding?

If he is serious about it, go for a $1000

But now you've already sent out that email, i say just f** with him now honestly, no point in selling it, he'll big a big --- thread on WHT, "SO the CEO OF VPSWOW Jason S. has resigned his post and has given his company humbly as a servant to us"

LOL you know its comin

don't do it, f** with him tell him you're from Vietnam and you need money wired to him through western bank, but you have to first get it through your brother in Nigeria

Lmao go do it!!

[iBrightDev]

IMO, 1k would just be greedy for this. i think you made a reasonable offer Jason.

[JasonS]

IMO, 1k would just be greedy for this. i think you made a reasonable offer Jason.

Thanks Justin :)

[david432111]

I don't think you should sell it even if he would give you $450 for rebranding.

[JasonS]

I don't think you should sell it even if he would give you $450 for rebranding.

If he doesn't accept the $450 price I e-mailed to him, we'll just tell him to take us to court and see what happens.

[iBrightDev]

tell him you want a BJ too, with the sale. :P

[DanTheMan]

Hey Jason, you might wanna check out this site: http://patft.uspto.gov/

I tried searching his patent/trademark, and it's not there.....vpswow or wowvps either way it's not there so the guy is obviously bluffing...

If you wanna take it a step further, just give them a call, they have nothing better to do than answer you call...and if it's a call from the uk you'll just be wasting like 5 dollars over seas call and you can confirm that this is a bluff and no lawyer needed, if he gets one he's going to have a hell of a job to beat you in court.

[JasonS]

Hey,

What if he were to register it as a trademark in the next month or so and they say "Now we have a case" I'd be left in the ----pan then.

[Zombie]

Hey,

What if he were to register it as a trademark in the next month or so and they say "Now we have a case" I'd be left in the ----pan then.
Has a good point.

I was thinking about him doing that reading the whole thread.

Alongside,

How hard would it be to get a friend to register it in UK?

If they live there it wouldnt be to hard now would it?

[DanTheMan]

He's just black mailing you basically, register it and f*ck him in the hole where it hurts the most!

[iBrightDev]

Dan;1033815']f*ck him in the hole where it hurts the most!

the ear? :P

[JasonS]

Dan;1033815']He's just black mailing you basically, register it and f*ck him in the hole where it hurts the most!

Trademark reg costs a lot though right?

[Dynash]

It'll be cheaper if you do it, rather than he does and sues you.

[JasonS]

I'll happily post your chat from July before you began business and all
correspondence in public for the public to decide then. I cant really
believe your stance and rejecting my generosity for such trivial amounts
risking your very livelihood with damages. Just a hand ful of the public
threads that show many many others being confused by your deliberate use
of the name you knew to be wrong in the first place is jsut...well I
just don't understand your decision here, good luck Jason. You should be
paying us not the other way around so don't think I'll drop to some
level of extortion which is exactly what this has become.

Im not rejecting our talks, because its best to be discussing this but
Id advise you to think more on this before I hit fwd to other people, my
lawyer, pr, and other channels. Id rather spend $450 on press releasing
this ridiculous stance your taking than give it to you. My previous
acceptance of anything was more than fair, I shouldnt have to pay a
dime. Id rather have you paying us for damages, legal fees, and
releasing the domain so maybe we can still recoup a profit on it. Please
take a few days to rethink this approach.

Best Regards,

Greg L.
JaguarPC.com - CEO

I'm not even sure how I should reply to this. I personally think he's getting worried about that fact that I haven't accepted his stupid offer beforehand.

[Tracker]

Jason...go get a trademark on the name or something legal showing it is yours and tell him to go play in traffic. Thats the best option I see here

[Zombie]

Jason...go get a trademark on the name or something legal showing it is yours and tell him to go play in traffic. Thats the best option I see here
I agree with tracker now if anything is your best chance to trademark it and be on your way

[JasonS]

I agree with tracker now if anything is your best chance to trademark it and be on your way

Should I just get a UK trademark? I think, after looking at the costs, I would consider the UK trademark.

GBP £200 to apply to register a UK Trade Mark; this includes one class of goods or services
GBP £50 for every other class you apply for,

[Zombie]

Should I just get a UK trademark? I think, after looking at the costs, I would consider the UK trademark.

GBP £200 to apply to register a UK Trade Mark; this includes one class of goods or services
GBP £50 for every other class you apply for,
A trademark is better than none and if i were you i would get a copyright as well :)

[Zombie]

-=- Deleted (Forgot i already posted :O) -=-

[Dynash]

You should. If you get the $450 off him, he'd then register it, and you're the one who's lost. If you take the $450 you could get from him and register it as a legal entity before him, he's screwed and can't touch you.

also:
I shouldnt have to pay a
dime. Id rather have you paying us for damages, legal fees, and
releasing the domain so maybe we can still recoup a profit on it.

He'd have to pay anyway, only if you lost the case would you need to pay, but he'd have to pay. Also, ICCAN rules say you need to pay both half of the fee's, if you're disbuting a domain.

[Zombie]

You should. If you get the $450 off him, he'd then register it, and you're the one who's lost. If you take the $450 you could get from him and register it as a legal entity before him, he's screwed and can't touch you.

also:

He'd have to pay anyway, only if you lost the case would you need to pay, but he'd have to pay. Also, ICCAN rules say you need to pay both half of the fee's, if you're disbuting a domain.
Exactly so do it now :)

[FusionHosts]

Don't worry about anything. He does not have any legal claim so your fine. Just ignore him and move on :) Also, everyone above is right. He would never recieve $30,000 in compensation for damages or rewards by the court.

So just relax, and ignore him.

[[DWH]Yuxuan]

He's probably bluffing, but once again, trademark the name just in case. Whatever, I doubt you really need to worry about this... Sounds like a good game of poker to me.

[iBrightDev]

get his address, adn send him a bag of crap. :D