Were busy bombing afghanistan, when the trouble is here!!

[shizzle]

Take a look at THIS!! (http://come.to/anarchy) How does the US let this exist!! I say there needs to be an internet task-force that can do WHATEVER it wants.

[wm2k1]

the problem is that it is not againist the law
its freedom of speech/press

[Hoth]

It's not as though anyone needs that to know how to blow something up, especially if they don't care about living through it and avoiding being caught. It's quite easy to kill people if someone wants to. If freedom of speech becomes illegal in the name of preventing possibly dangerous thoughts, I'll want to move... give the government the right to take away public information, and they'll take away any info of their political opponents, etc.

[Giancarlo]

I say people like that should be tried from treason and crimes against the state. Freedom of speech does not apply because that site could be used in a dangerous fashion, for example violent uses. Therefore freedom of speech is not applicable in the court of law. The site is warranted to a shutdown if inquiried and damn I hope there would be one for that site.

I am not against freedom of speech, but against terrorist sites.

[Owen]

Actually GC, freedom of speech(and press) has no limitations except when threatening another individual or groups(usually only followed through in extreme cases and political figures such as the president) or if such information is classified. Why do you think KKK rallies are allowed to be held? Because the US can not, by its on Constitution, punish anyone for material such as that.

Edit: There are a couple other exceptions such as issues in pornography(child porn and decency acts), but there are very few exceptions.

Besides, I don't think that information is on a United States server, and if it isn't there isn't squat the US could do legally except ask the server or the country the server resides in to remove the material, which really isn't the most important job for the United States at the moment.

[Dusty]

Wouldn't matter if the site's taken down (although I see no reason, apart from possibly a copyright issue, for it to be), the Anarchist Cookbook is a readily obtainable book. Any large library should have it and, failing that, you can just order it from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962303208/) or your local book seller. I've never heard of the Terrorist Handbook, but I'd assume the same for it.

I've leafed through the former before. "Household chemicals" I suppose if you live in a pyrotechnics laboratory. I think anyone actually trying to accomplish anything using that book would be sorely disappointed, but I really doubt anyone actually would.

Would I agree that it's okay to make bombs and blow things up? No. Would I agree that it's you're right to find out how to make those bombs and where to place them for the most effective blast, sure. Knowing how and doing it are two different things.

Personally, I don't think I'd need a "recipe" to build a bomb, I think I could figure out something that would explode all by myself.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Owen
Actually GC, freedom of speech(and press) has no limitations except when threatening another individual or groups(usually only followed through in extreme cases and political figures such as the president) or if such information is classified. Why do you think KKK rallies are allowed to be held? Because the US can not, by its on Constitution, punish anyone for material such as that.

Yes but these rallies must be held peaceful and if violence breaks out the law enforcement (police and FBI) will take proper action. I feel this site is invoking violence.

Dusty said fire bombs could be created from information from that site and/or book. If that is true I want the people responsible for creating that arrested, tried and sentenced. Arrested by Interpol (an organization that is weak nonetheless there).

[Owen]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Yes but these rallies must be held peaceful and if violence breaks out the law enforcement (police and FBI) will take proper action. I feel this site is invoking violence.

Dusty said fire bombs could be created from information from that site and/or book. If that is true I want the people responsible for creating that arrested, tried and sentenced. Arrested by Interpol (an organization that is weak nonetheless there).

When I was refering to KKK, I was meaning how they can give information about how to perform racist(and illegal acts). Not violence. Despite the fact that book talks about things that are used in violence, there is nothing that can be done, because it does not threaten, harass, or harm anyone itself. I don't like it myself, but there is nothing the United States can legally do.

As for Interpol, I don't really know their bylaws and policies, but I don't think they can really do anytihng legally by someone spreading knowledge(dangerous knowledge nevertheless) as I don't think that site has broken any real laws unless the server the country resides in has laws against information like that.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Owen


When I was refering to KKK, I was meaning how they can give information about how to perform racist(and illegal acts). Not violence. Despite the fact that book talks about things that are used in violence, there is nothing that can be done, because it does not threaten, harass, or harm anyone itself. I don't like it myself, but there is nothing the United States can legally do.

I don't like what the KKK does infact I bitterly hate them and feel they threaten democracy, but they have a right to stage rallies unfornately. You are saying exactly what I mean.



As for Interpol, I don't really know their bylaws and policies, but I don't think they can really do anytihng legally by someone spreading knowledge(dangerous knowledge nevertheless) as I don't think that site has broken any real laws unless the server the country resides in has laws against information like that.

The site may be breaking laws when new laws pass the congress that is if the site is based in the US. I would suspect all European countries would pass similar legislation prohibiting sites that promote the making of bombs.

[Dusty]

Dusty said fire bombs could be created from information from that site and/or book.Wow, I must have been sleep-posting again :). Yeah, I'd assume there're firebombs in there somewhere. I only glanced through it, I didn't memorize the index. All I distinctly remember was a section on derailing a train with a single explosive, that, and many references to drugs.

But, I'm failing to grasp your logic. Shouldn't the one who throws a firebomb be arrested, not the one who wrote about it fifteen years ago in a book?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Dusty
Wow, I must have been sleep-posting again :). Yeah, I'd assume there're firebombs in there somewhere. I only glanced through it, I didn't memorize the index. All I distinctly remember was a section on derailing a train with a single explosive, that, and many references to drugs.

Okay. I think I am standing more firm on my position already.



But, I'm failing to grasp your logic. Shouldn't the one who throws a firebomb be arrested, not the one who wrote about it fifteen years ago in a book?

If the person didn't write it the incident would of never happened?

[Owen]

No. WE aren't seeing the same thing when it comes to the KKK example. You said the US could shut the site down. I simply used the KKK to give an example where dangerous information is passed but there is nothing that can be done by the US.

You said that "Freedom of speech does not apply because that site could be used in a dangerous fashion, for example violent uses. Therefore freedom of speech is not applicable in the court of law. The site is warranted to a shutdown if inquiried and damn I hope there would be one for that site. "

I am just showing you where you are wrong there.

As for the passing laws forbidding such information, I have heard of no such laws being thought about, and I am sure if it was, the Supreme Court would declare in unconstitutional. That site, if on a US server has a right to be published. Knowledge should not be foidden, although I wish such a site was not published.

[Giancarlo]

The site is violating US national security and may be shut down if a law passes saying it could be. And I have a feeling a site violating US national security could be at risk of being shut down.

I personally am disgusted at the people and if I had a chance I give these people a very hard kick in the head for making such a site.

[Dusty]

If the person didn't write it the incident would of never happened?Yes. You don't read a book and then decide to derail a train, you must have had some prior motivation to push you to that. The book may spell out an ideal scenario and give directions on its execution, but anyone resigned to carrying out something like that wouldn't need any help.

[Owen]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


If the person didn't write it the incident would of never happened?

That logic is way off. For instance, if Person A hadn't sold that gun to person B who had a legal right to it, the Person B wouldn't have murdered Person C. Catch my drift.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Dusty
Yes. You don't read a book and then decide to derail a train, you must have had some prior motivation to push you to that. The book may spell out an ideal scenario and give directions on its execution, but anyone resigned to carrying out something like that wouldn't need any help.

And if this book is provided to someone like the person responsible for putting pipe bombs in mailboxes what happens?

Owen, don't bring gun control in this because I had an NRA link in my sig some time ago. Guns are a different.

[Owen]

Im not bringing gun control into this issue. I am bringing up a comparison. You don't restrict another person for the fault of one individual.

As for the book, if someone gave it to someone else, I find it disgusting, but there is nothing that can be done at all nor should their be anything done, because we will start holding other people accountable for someone's actions(we are already starting to do that in the US as it is).

[Giancarlo]

But these people should at least show some common sense and not publish such things....

[Dusty]

And if this book is provided to someone like the person responsible for putting pipe bombs in mailboxes what happens? The kid looking for attention, you mean? I think he would lash out in one way or another with or without it.

If you're angry enough, there's lots of stuff around the house that can be used as explosives. If you can't manage to make a working bomb, you can always put a little gas in a glass bottle, mix in a little latex to make it sticky, then put a lit rag in it for a fuse. If you can't do that, you can always fall back on your gun. No gun? Use something sharp or heavy, then.

A book is not a source of violence. The tools are all around, they need not be written anywhere for someone to use them. To attack violence you've got the find the heart of what motivated it to begin with and work to resolve that conflict. That's a hard task, yes, and I agree, banning a book is much easier-- but it won't solve anything.



How are guns different? If that person in Austin Texas hadn't had that gun, would he of shot all those people from that tower? You agree then that the gun was not the source of the violence. Then why do you blame a book?

[Owen]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
But these people should at least show some common sense and not publish such things....

I am not going to argue with you that people shouldn't make available such information as I agree with you. However, I am saying there is nothing that can be done or should be done(under current laws) about it by the government.

[Giancarlo]

Okay, okay... maybe I was mistaken. But the publishers of the book as I said should use common sense and not publish such information that terrorists could even use.

[shizzle]

This book tells you how to make napalm explosives with common chemicals. And plastic explosives with medicine that you can get at K-mart, I believe it should be taken off the internet. Some kid decides to bring a knife to school, ok. Some kid brings plastic explosives to school, thats a BIG deal. Ok?