Angelcities.com Now Has Ads

[TheRunes]

I am a current member os angelcities.com and as of soon they will be putting ads on our pages. You guys might want to change that in the database...

[Christy]

Not surprising. There is no such thing as an no ad free webspace provider.

[Sphosting.com]

Yes there is and sphosting.com is 100% ad free

[Technics]

For how long?.

[Sphosting.com]

We have striped down services (no ftp access) so members update through the member section and actually generate more revenue that way if we were to place banner ads on members homepages. We have 1.20% CTR which is 3 nearly 4 times above the industry standard seeing us generate higher revenue from less impressions.

[Technics]

that won't last forever. At somepoint in the near future you'll put banners on peoples pages or offer paid hosting.

[Sphosting.com]

in the future we are planning to offer a paid hosting solution, which has extra services, includes ftp for a monthly fee. But our ad free hosting plan will still stay unchanged.

[Technics]

::cough:: Ok ::cough::

[Sphosting.com]

cough all you like : )

[Ron Seigel]

You guys are so frickin smart!!! You've figured out something nobody else has been able to. [/sarcasm]

Who the heck is Sphosting.com anyway. Nobody's even heard of you. You're nothing and you'll wither and die long before anyone cares you're gone. I've seen it wayyyy too many times here to EVER believe that ad-free hosting can last. PERIOD! If Crosswinds couldn't do it (and anyone who believes that Crosswinds is EVER going to remove that horrid popup is NUTS) then you sure as hell can't.

my .02...deal with it!

[Koolguy]

From my knowlege nobody ever clicks on the ads within the web-based admin pannel. Usually the webmaster is too busy building his/her site.

[Gcites]

Unless they tell there webmasters to click on them which is against most ad agencies tos :P

[Chicken]

Originally posted by Sphosting.com
We have striped down services (no ftp access) so members update through the member section and actually generate more revenue that way if we were to place banner ads on members homepages. We have 1.20% CTR which is 3 nearly 4 times above the industry standard seeing us generate higher revenue from less impressions.

What you are doing is noble but for a cost to profit ratio, members clicking on ads in their web building section isn't going to pay your bills. This must be small, or you'd have realized that. Not tryig to insult you )please don't misunderstand me), but ads on member's pages is what is going to get you money, not on the admin. side.

[Ron Seigel]

Point #1: Crosswinds isn't making enough money so they put popups on member sites.

Point #2: Crosswinds (probably) realizes that they're not making enough with the popups either so they resort to begging members for donations.

What makes you (or Crosswinds for that matter) think that in the future if they remove the popups that they'll be making enough to sustain the business? All they get out of the deal is some operating capital (which I might add *should *be built into the INCOME of any intelligent business). What happens when they've upgraded the hardware and a year from now they run out of money again? Why would they suddenly have enough income to sustain the business then without ads when they didn't have enough income now? Easy answer - they won't. Do you believe that this is the only new hardware that Crosswinds will ever need to buy? Do you think that the bandwidth fairy is going to come along and give them free bandwidth? The bills are only going to get bigger. At some point in the future the "new" servers will become obsolete and worthless and they'll have to do it all over again.

I would NEVER put my trust in a company that admits that they're not making enough money to sustain their business.

This makes perfect sense to me. Why doesn't it make any sense to all the Crosswinds groupies? Perhaps you're biased?!?!

(BTW...why is Geocities 'greedy'?? Because they actually prefer to make a profit? Because they are actually willing to give you something for FREE that costs them money in exchange for you putting banners on your site with the expectation that you'll make them a profit? Shame on them. I suppose you think Exxon should give you free gas too since they shouldn't be so 'greedy' and expect you to actually pay for it.)

[Technics]

We love you Ron :).

[Sphosting.com]

Actually we not even planning to put ads on members homepages, we ACTUALLY earn more income by not placing them on. Its not the number of impressions that makes you money but the CTR and quality impressions from a well rounded mix of ip addresses.

The problem is with cw is that they offered to much to members, since we don't offer ftp access where not open to much abuse so our costs are way less. We also have special agreenments with our server provider for cheap bandwdith which sees further costs savings.

Also Ron & Chicken calm down, the way your typing seems to me that your going to have a heart attack : ).

The major failer in ad free homepages is the addition of ftp access, we removed it and so far with 12,000 members its been a success.

Where've been doing ad free hosting for nearly 2 years, We started our on srld.com but migrated all of our users over to sphosting.com in about May this year so ron thats who we are.

In addition we signed up a major advertiser who we will be marketing with and provide our members with extra free services.

Stuart Dyer
Sphosting.com

[Edited by Sphosting.com on 11-14-2000 at 09:57 AM]

[Chicken]

Originally posted by Sphosting.com
Also Ron & Chicken calm down, the way your typing seems to me that your going to have a heart attack : ).

Don't let my words of rationality slow you down, heh. I'd just like to see some more FWP make it instead of the usual, new one here, new one gone scenario. I'm calm, trust me. :)

[Sphosting.com]

I totally agree with you chicken. I have seen people start up a fwp and then close down too many times, guys just trying to make a quick buck not prepared to save and keep working and adjusting their service, I know people who run fwp's who shouldn't be in business, I'm not going to name names or fwp's but we all know who they are. We have seen a few of them on this bb. : )

Stuart Dyer
Sphosting.com

[Ron Seigel]

Good Lord you have a LOT to learn about business. I'm not going to bother to respond to your #1 since it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.



2) Geocities is greedy not because of just the ad square, but because they're now owned by Yahoo!, who cares NOTHING about their customers - in other words, they're "real" sellouts because they're worrying, "Oh no, we can't do this on our own, we're just too crappy; let's go hide behind Yahoo!!" Yahoo! also sucks now because they don't index sites anymore due to their taking over of Geocities, the Webring, and now Ebay! They were cool back when they were just a directory service.

Huh? It wasn't Geocities decision to sell. It was up to the shareholders. Geocities was (and still is under Yahoo) a PUBLIC company. The *only* thing that matters in a public company is shareholder value. Period! It's been that way since the beginning of time and isn't going to change any time soon. Geocities has never 'hid' (as you so eloquently put it) behind Yahoo. Yahoo flat out BOUGHT them. There wasn't much option. Yahoo paid a premium and the shareholders accepted it. The shareholders made a profit when they sold and Yahoo makes more of a profit now with Geocities. What on earth is wrong with that?


3) It's one thing for an FWP to place ads on one's site; it's another to claim copyright to all original content uploaded by their members; Yahoo! Geocities does this; "free" should not give a host automatic copyrights to someone else's hard work.

Do you *honestly* think that Geocities/Yahoo is going to "steal" someones crap Britney Spears (or whatever) site and use it as their own??? That's silly. I've heard that dumb argument before and it's still a dumb argument.


4) I don't know if this has to do with anything, but it's not CW's fault they had to resort to pop-ups; it's all those other DAMNED FWP'S that were once adless but eventually had to resort to placing some sort of stupid promotion all over their members' pages (Angelfire, Xoom, Townserver, Prohosting). This just caused everyone to move to Crosswinds to boycott those ad-filthy FWP's and as a result, it just overloaded Crosswinds, proving that there is no way to boycott an ad-filthy FWP; you'll only create another ad-filthy FWP.

I firmly believe that this is the single stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life. It's everyone else's fault but Crosswind's??? Uhhhhhh...nice try (not really) but no dice. Crosswinds screwed things up all on their own without any help from anyone else (except maybe the leech members like yourself that think no company has the right to make a profit). They should have known right from the start that they couldn't possibly make any sort of a profit without any sort of an income to speak of (DUH!). Who's running Crosswinds anyway? A bunch of high school dropouts that never took a business class in their lives? Looks like it to me.

Crosswinds is finally doing what they should have done right from the very start - TRYING TO MAKE A PROFIT. I'm guessing that they're hoping they lose all the leeches that they've been carrying all these years and end up with a member base that would prefer they make a profit (even if that means ads on their site). Don't hold your breath on the pop-ups going away. My best guess is that they're here to stay.

[Webdude]

Crosswinds is actually one of few fwp's that offer ftp. The estimates arent accurate but I bet are pretty close when I say 90% of fwps close within a few months and 90% of those did NOT offer ftp. Yes ftp is easier uploading, but browser uploaders use more system resources. Online uploaders generally help to kill your bandwidth as well. Most of the time ftp traffic does not go on your bandwidth bill (such is the case with crosswinds) but browser uploaders are just that, browser http in which all uploads are via http and count towards your bill. Having banners in the online uploader/manager only reduce your clickthru ratio because no-one clicks on those unless a particular banner is truly amazing. It is good though for beefing up banner impression. When advertisors ask how many banner impressions you do, you can give them an honest answer. But it does ruin your impression/click ratio if you care about that.

A promise of services is the easiest promise in the world to make. To break that promise through no fault of your own is even easier. I should know, which is why I never make promises anymore. I know how easy it is to get buried, Worldzone nearly died twice. Ron and others are correct, you are getting into a deal you wont be able to carry out for the long run. I'd suggest you build a better business plan/model. Crosswind's step down from ad-free has proven it cant be done for the long term.....and ftp was/is the ONLY thing they offered...no cgi, no domain hosting, etc.

[Ron Seigel]

What???? Scott and Lenny ought to kick your --- for saying that!!!!

Are you sure you're not Gary Nimrod using a different name?

[Edited by Peo on 11-14-2000 at 11:32 PM]

[Koolguy]

Crosswinds had good intentions but they went about it all wrong. Unlimited space and bandwidth, that just attracts warez and porn sites.

[Webdude]

Originally posted by cyberryan

Originally posted by Webdude
Online uploaders generally help to kill your bandwidth as well. Most of the time ftp traffic does not go on your bandwidth bill (such is the case with crosswinds) but browser uploaders are just that, browser http in which all uploads are via http and count towards your bill.

Really? Then why do you use browser uploading instead of FTP in your Worldzone?


Crosswind's step down from ad-free has proven it cant be done for the long term.....and ftp was/is the ONLY thing they offered...no cgi, no domain hosting, etc.

So, Angelfire, Geocities, Xoom, Tripod, and Fortunecity are rich up to their ears and they don't offer "custom cgi" or domain hosting. By the way, who cares if a host has pre-installed cgi scripts or not? Why do you think free counter, guestbook, and form e-mail services were invented? Also, according to Crosswinds, offering members the possibility to upload their own server side scripts poses a security hazard, which is why the rich FWP's don't do so either, but as we all know, Worldzone is "100%" hackproof, right, Webdude?

The ONLY reason those guys are rich is because they all went public. It doesnt mean they are profitable. Unfortunatly it's the shareholders who lose out. Geo is rich because Yahoo bought them.

Worldzone has browser upload because when I started Worldzone I was a newbie and didnt know any better. Now it's too late to change it. Same with those big guys. They cant go back and change much without screwing up tons of accounts.

I have also never said Worldzone was hackproof....though I may have thought so when I was a newbie, but I have learned the hard way several times. It has good security, but STILL isnt hackproof and I doubt it ever will be.

[Technics]

Nothing is hack proof. Theres always someone who can get in no matter how hard you try to keep em out :p.

[Technics]

Your still as childish as before i see......

[Ron Seigel]

That's ok. I'm sure we can chase the little prick away again. :p

[Technics]

IF and when they remove the banners how long before they begin begging and placing banners again?.

How old are you numpty nimrod?.

[Koolguy]

Why is he so loyal to crosswinds? What a crazy -------.

[Ron Seigel]

That's the interesting thing. He's not loyal to Crosswinds. He's only loyal to himself. Nimrod is one of the leeches of the Internet that thinks that everything should be free. He doesn't have a clue about profit and loss or expenses and couldn't care less. He just wants what's in it for him and the hell with everyone else.

I already posted his initial reaction in the Crosswinds forums here when they first put the popups. It was one of the most selfish and childish displays I've ever seen. He'll go away soon enough since he has NEVER been able to come up with an intelligent point here to back any of his arguments and even he has to get tired of looking like an idiot here. It's getting rather tiring actually helping him put his foot in his mouth (but I'll keep doing it all the same just for fun ;))

[Tim]

I'm going to post here AGAIN when Crosswinds removes their pop-up ad

I really hope he keeps that promise...he won't be posting here ever again! :)

[Koolguy]

Hopefully :D

[Gcites]

me? lol!

Originally posted by Sphosting.com
Actually we not even planning to put ads on members homepages, we ACTUALLY earn more income by not placing them on. Its not the number of impressions that makes you money but the CTR and quality impressions from a well rounded mix of ip addresses.

The problem is with cw is that they offered to much to members, since we don't offer ftp access where not open to much abuse so our costs are way less. We also have special agreenments with our server provider for cheap bandwdith which sees further costs savings.

Also Ron & Chicken calm down, the way your typing seems to me that your going to have a heart attack : ).

The major failer in ad free homepages is the addition of ftp access, we removed it and so far with 12,000 members its been a success.

Where've been doing ad free hosting for nearly 2 years, We started our on srld.com but migrated all of our users over to sphosting.com in about May this year so ron thats who we are.

In addition we signed up a major advertiser who we will be marketing with and provide our members with extra free services.

Stuart Dyer
Sphosting.com

[Edited by Sphosting.com on 11-14-2000 at 09:57 AM]

[Christy]

lol! This has got to be one of the most entertaining threads I read!

[TheRunes]

Yeah. And to think I started it to tell people that Angelcites are putting ads on members sites.
My complaint is we cant choose where to put the ads on the pages...
I think places say add the pop up ad code and we wont automaticly put the ad on your page. I think we should be able to put the ad code on our self WHERE we want it, if we dont put it it gets automaticly put on. Ihats my 2 cents...
I mean look at my site http://www.the-runes.com
I dont want an ad at the top. I would host an add at the top of my content.