RevenuePilot.com?

[grand]

Has anyone have any experience with them?

They say they'll pay up to $2 per click..

Which i highly Doubt that they can afford it, but i might be wrong.

I'm thinking of signing up, but only after i see what you guys say :)

[grand]

Also i forgot to ask the following.

Since its pay per click, do they require your visitors to search through the link pop up? or just the actual link?

[nitroboy]

check out their faq page here (http://www.revenuepilot.com/faq.html)

however, I doubt you will earn a max of $2 per click

:rolleyes:

[grand]

Quote:
You will be paid 60% of each search term bidded value. That means that if keyword “flowers” is bidded at $1, you will automatically earn 60 cents from that click.


So if i put a link to my site on this keyboard "flower" someone press the link, it opens. Thats worth 60 cents? No need to search through the pop up? like a search engine..

Just want to make sure :)

[nitroboy]

Originally posted by grand
Quote:
You will be paid 60% of each search term bidded value. That means that if keyword “flowers” is bidded at $1, you will automatically earn 60 cents from that click.


So if i put a link to my site on this keyboard "flower" someone press the link, it opens. Thats worth 60 cents? No need to search through the pop up? like a search engine..

Just want to make sure :)
I think you need to add a search box on your site, when a visitor puts "flowers" in it, he will receive results and when he clicks a result that is bidded at $1, he gets 60 cents

[Jan]

RevenuePilot is now a member here, so he can answer all your questions. :)

[Damoose]

sounds like a good deal, i signed up :) hope they pay. i would think they are seeing as though they are a sponsor at these forums.

[RevenuePilot]

Hi Everybody,

Let me try to answer all of your questions.


"They say they'll pay up to $2 per click..
Which i highly Doubt that they can afford it, but i might be wrong."

We do pay up to $2 per click, and yes we could afford to do so since some keywords are more then $2 per click and we always pay 60% of the bidded value.


"Also i forgot to ask the following.
Since its pay per click, do they require your visitors to search through the link pop up? or just the actual link?"

It all depends on the linking method you choose, if you choose search box the visitor has to go to search page, but on the other hand if you choose "dynamic banner" or "java include" the search results will appear inside your website as part of your content and the visitor will go directly to advertiser site and not to the search results page. and you will instantly get paid for that click.


"So if i put a link to my site on this keyboard "flower" someone press the link, it opens. Thats worth 60 cents? No need to search through the pop up? like a search engine.."

Yes you are correct, no need to search and you would make 60 cents in this case.


"I think you need to add a search box on your site, when a visitor puts "flowers" in it, he will receive results and when he clicks a result that is bidded at $1, he gets 60 cents"

Again you don't need to add a search box, its really up to you. You can add a "dynamic banner" or "java include" and send visitors directly to the advertisers from your site.


"sounds like a good deal, i signed up hope they pay. i would think they are seeing as though they are a sponsor at these forums."

We always pay, I challenge anybody to find a person who was suppost to get paid and didn't. We are in this business for a long term, spending a lot of money on technology, advertising, etc.. and are comited to doing our best in serving webmasters. If you still have any questions please feel free to post them here, email me directly or call me.

[Niklas]

Waiting for account activation :D

[Damoose]

me too :) hope they approve me :)

[MN-Carl]

Hello,

What about Free Hosting providers, would a free hosting provider be accepted?

[RevenuePilot]

It really depends on a case by cases base. Most probably you will be allowed to use searchbox, I am not sure about "dynamic banner" and "java include" I am not the person who approves the sites in to the network, but to increase your chances of being accepted I would suggest to have a site fully launched before applying.



Originally posted by MN-Carl
Hello,

What about Free Hosting providers, would a free hosting provider be accepted?

[nitroboy]

okay I signed up too, now lets hope my site will be accepted ;)

[grand]

Sounds like a good deal, Count me in ^_^

[Niklas]

YAY! i was approved!

:D

[RevenuePilot]

Most of the sites who applied from freewebspace got accepted ;)

[Niklas]

Revenue Pilot is great!

They pay you high $$$ AND to PayPal!

Revenue, could you come Aim quickly?

[sucker]

hehe
I really hope my website got accepted too:D

[nitroboy]

Originally posted by RevenuePilot
Most of the sites who applied from freewebspace got accepted ;) at least I know mine is :classic2:
thanks dude! :biggrin2:

[Damoose]

I got in, but one problem, lots of pages i try and access are 'pages cannot be displayed' for exmaple when i log in stargith away i get one and as soon as i submit a support ticket i get one, helppppppp. :( I really want to log in.

[RevenuePilot]

Hi,

Sorry I couldn't respond earlier, I was out for the day, attending Internet World 2002 expo her in NY. I was told by support team that your account is being taken care off and you should be ok soon. Apparently we had a bug in your account, other users were not affected. As always if you still have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to call or email us.

regards,







Originally posted by Damoose
I got in, but one problem, lots of pages i try and access are 'pages cannot be displayed' for exmaple when i log in stargith away i get one and as soon as i submit a support ticket i get one, helppppppp. :( I really want to log in.

[sucker]

yea~!~!~!
My website got accepted:D
:D :D :D :D :D

[Damoose]

Woah, thanx for the great support, i feel special cos i got a bug and no one else did :) LOL. do i get 75% now instead of 60%? LOL, JOKING.

[grand]

Yeah i'll be joining once i get some of the work i got on my back done.

After that's done, i'll be signing up ^_^

[Lawrence]

Hello Everyone,

I wanted everyone to see the blatant intellectual property violation of our TargetWords.com affiliate program with the links below:


1. Textlink Directories: Offering an EXACT mirror of our Targetted Textlink Directories

http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/textlink-directories.html


2. Search Directories: Although not 100% identical, I submit that heavy *inspiration* was drawn from our TargetWords.com search directories/panel


http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/search-panels.html

3. Faq Section: This is supporting evidence that our TargetWords.com program's intellectual property was blatently reproduced without our consent.

http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/FAQ.html


We view ourselves as webmasters just as we are affiliate program operators so I'm sure you can all understand what it is like to put effort into building a site or design and then have someone come along and copy your work. My apologies in advance if, after looking at the illustrations, you feel we are incorrect.

[}:8) Supermoo]

I thought some of those items in the RevenuePilot client area looked familiar, in particular the textlink directories. I'm aware as a designer that affiliate programs can put a lot of money into the developement of their creatives/links. I find it sickening to see a program with such callous disregard for other affiliate programs's Intellectual Property and copyright.

Although what I find most distirbing are statements like these:

Posted by RevenuePilot:
We always pay, I challenge anybody to find a person who was suppost to get paid and didn't. We are in this business for a long term, spending a lot of money on technology, advertising, etc.. and are comited to doing our best in serving webmasters. If you still have any questions please feel free to post them here, email me directly or call me.

It will be intresting to see what Anatoliy has to say about what appears to be obvious theft.

[edit: Spelling]

[RevenuePilot]

I will respond to all the issues one by one, but first I just wanted to say that I am really amazed which measures some people will take, just to bash their competitors.

1) “Textlink Directories” simply represent the list of high paying ppc terms grouped by categories. The terms are provided all the time by all ppc search engine partners and are not in any way unique. Also they are not in any way copyright protected and are used by virtually all ppc networks to direct visitors to high paying search results.

2) Our “Search Directories” are unique and we have all the rights in the world to design our own search directories, just like any webmaster has the right to design his own banner. I really don’t think you own the patent for the “Search Directories” concept like the Unicast owns the patent for the ad delivery methods. So if we design our own “Search Directories” does that mean that we got “heavy *inspiration*” from targetwords? Does it mean that while designing MSN instant messenger Microsoft got heavy inspiration from AOL “Instant Messenger”? I don’t think so, I think you just don’t like the whole concept of market economy and competition!

3) Your “Faq Section” is again not in any ways unique, and most importantly not the same as ours. Questions like: “Do you allow incentivized traffic?, etc.“ are the basic questions in the industry due to ppc partners contracts and are being asked by virtually all ppc affiliate programs.

Also I would like to point out that RevenuePilot has more linking options and completely different user interface and admin . While you may find some similarities it is only natural for it to occur due to the industry nature and similar requirements by all ppc partners. Again I am really shocked by this unethical public attack and would like to challenge Lawrence to show anything illegal in our practices, while we had some webmasters switching to our program from TargetWords due to our higher commissions I never expected it would lead to the above.





Originally posted by Lawrence
Hello Everyone,

I wanted everyone to see the blatant intellectual property violation of our TargetWords.com affiliate program with the links below:


1. Textlink Directories: Offering an EXACT mirror of our Targetted Textlink Directories

http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/textlink-directories.html


2. Search Directories: Although not 100% identical, I submit that heavy *inspiration* was drawn from our TargetWords.com search directories/panel


http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/search-panels.html

3. Faq Section: This is supporting evidence that our TargetWords.com program's intellectual property was blatently reproduced without our consent.

http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/FAQ.html


We view ourselves as webmasters just as we are affiliate program operators so I'm sure you can all understand what it is like to put effort into building a site or design and then have someone come along and copy your work. My apologies in advance if, after looking at the illustrations, you feel we are incorrect.

[RevenuePilot]

Yes we did invest a lot of money in to our technology, etc. We currently have one of the most advance “stats” in the industry. We also have our own unique online supports system which enables us to match members questions to the available database of previous questions, which cuts down on the amount of time needed to respond to each inquire. Again I would like to stress that we provide live phone support (Number of webmasters have personally called us and can prove that) We are also very quick to respond to all emails. If you think the above requires no investment in technology as well as intellectual capital you probably never worked for any technology company.




Originally posted by }:8) Supermoo
I thought some of those items in the RevenuePilot client area looked familiar, in particular the textlink directories. I'm aware as a designer that affiliate programs can put a lot of money into the developement of their creatives/links. I find it sickening to see a program with such calias disregard for other affiliate programs's Inelectual Property and copyright.

Although what I find most distirbing are statements like these:


It will be intresting to see what Anatoliy has to say about what appears to be obvious theft.

[Jan]

For those of you who saw trenzterra's post here earlier, it has been removed because someone else posted that while trenz was asleep, he also posted in other forums. Obviously someone with a grudge against certain members here. :chinese2:

[Lawrence]

Originally posted by RevenuePilot
I just wanted to say that I am really amazed which measures some people will take, just to bash their competitors.

For those who don't know me or have never dealt with me, my history on various online forums is proof that I always post as objectively and fairly as possible about competing programs. Even if it means publically recommending a competing program over our own. On all forums, you will find that if I have nothing good to say, I don't say it, with this being the exception.

I do not cry and b*tch even when companies that we are suing for payments are being talked about on a public forum. (If anyone wants proof, PM me).


Here are some threads to show new members or members that don't know me or my character that I am not just some regular John Doe that screams and cries at every possible chance:

In support of a competing pop up program:
http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=548608979&f=377604689&m=281605199&r=691605199#691605199
http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17643#post172945

Recommendations for other search programs:
http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5653#post43553

Supporting a program in which I could have easily said: 'Use TargetWords.com for 404 traffic'
http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23738#post235740


In support of other revenue programs:
http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=548608979&f=377604689&m=632604699&r=932604699#932604699
http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=548608979&f=377604689&m=514605199&r=614605199#614605199

I have even taken the time out with a Focalex staff member (who offers a competing pop* service) to give them feedback on what I thought they could do to improve their program.




Originally posted by RevenuePilot
While you may find some similarities it is only natural for it to occur due to the industry nature and similar requirements by all ppc partners.


The following "similarities" when looking at them as a whole, are not just "similarities":

http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/textlink-directories.html
http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/search-panels.html
http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/FAQ.html









Do I think you have good support ticket system? Sure....it appears pretty robust to me and to be honest, sounds like one of the better ones in the industry.
Do I think you have "one of the most advance stats" in the industry? Not too sure...Maybe you do, Maybe you don't..but if you do, more power to you.
I have never stated that our program is better than yours, nor did I say yours is inferior.
Do I want to get into a debate over who has a better program? Not at all, thats not my style.


I wanted to bring the facts to light and I posted my findings the same way a webmaster would have posted his or her findings under the same conditions. Period.

[RevenuePilot]

First I would like to thank all webmasters, from who we received emails of support, during past days. I would also like to assure everybody that provocation’s such as the above, are not going to affect us in any ways. In fact in during the coming weeks, RevenuePilot will announce new partnerships which will position us well above our competitors. As of right now we are stronger then ever, providing fast payments, excellent support and one of the most lucrative revenue sharing programs that can be found today.

Moving on to last post I would like to say that after talking to some business development professionals in the industry it became clear to me that Lawrence will do anything to try to bring down the company.

Just one of the examples which clearly contradicts the below statement:

“I do not cry and b*tch even when companies that we are suing for payments are being talked about on a public forum. (If anyone wants proof, PM me)”

Is the fact that Lawrence created a whole mini site which was dedicated to bashing the image of ValleyAlley.com a ppc search engine that he was working with. (I don’t really think he created this mini site for his wife or kids to see) If anybody wants to read what kind of stuff he posted just follow the link
http://www.geekfaction.net/pro/nph-pro.pl/010110A/http/www.oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/valleyalley/#lie3
Now I don’t really know, and don’t really care if the statements he posted are right or not, but as a professional with some kind of respect and business ethics I would never make such post. I would try to resolve issue with a help of the lawyer or collection agency, but would never post private emails online.

[}:8) Supermoo]

Originally posted by RevenuePilot
Yes we did invest a lot of money in to our technology, etc. We currently have one of the most advance “stats” in the industry. We also have our own unique online supports system which enables us to match members questions to the available database of previous questions, which cuts down on the amount of time needed to respond to each inquire. Again I would like to stress that we provide live phone support (Number of webmasters have personally called us and can prove that) We are also very quick to respond to all emails. If you think the above requires no investment in technology as well as intellectual capital you probably never worked for any technology company.


Anatoily,

That's great to hear, although you're not covering the main issue here: Did you steal/copy TargetWords.com's creatives?

You claimed in a previous post;

Originally posted by RevenuePilot
1) “Textlink Directories” simply represent the list of high paying ppc terms grouped by categories. The terms are provided all the time by all ppc search engine partners and are not in any way unique. Also they are not in any way copyright protected and are used by virtually all ppc networks to direct visitors to high paying search results.

If you can please make public, via posing here, or making available here, the terms given to you by the PPCSE companies in that exact order I would greatly appreciate it and fully appologise if it's verified.

You must understand from the point of a publisher at the moment, you appear to be copying TargetWords.com's creatives and text links without question, if you can prove otherwise with reasonable evidence your case will be much stronger.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
Also I would like to point out that RevenuePilot has more linking options and completely different user interface and admin

Personally, I find that your affiliate administration interface looks very similar with the same names for certain creatives.

[mastermind]

Hi everyone here at freewebspace,

its long time before i posted up here at any forums but i have been constantly in touch with these forms but today i have to post seeing this controvercy.

Well going through this thread i would like to give my 2 cents about these 2companies.i havn't been much with these two companies but here's my 2 cents on these :) as i have been their member and had worked with them.


1. targetwords(oversee). there's no doubt at all that Lawrence is a nice person and i have never ever seen him posting ever like this in any of the boards whethere it is geekvillage or freewebapsce ..he has quite a good repo as person.etc..frankly speaking targetwords has the most impressive way of linking through search directories,well i have never seen any thing like this.

its quite impressive.Well payments are ontime and sometimes before times also :D people at various boards speak themselves about payments and i have never heard any complaints about them.They are quite professional and cooperative and also response mails withing 24 hrs.

but the only thing that i have not used them much was because their traking system.I always feel that my searches were not counted as i would have thought.But well there could be any reason for that and frankly i never contacted them regarding this coz i was with search123.com :classic2: and i'm sure if i have contacted them they would have looked into this.


2.Revenuepilot. i recently got approved from them and first thing that came in my mind was when i came accorss their linking directories was that "Yeh i have seen seen this before;may be at targetwords".

Well but yeh i must appercieate that they(revenuepilot) have most impressive features in their members area which i havnt seen in any serach portal.It seems they are quite sound technology wise.They have many valueadded features in their members area which many search portals dont have.

Well i gave very little traffic to them but noticed that they have better traking than targetwords and their tracking systems were real time and quite impressive and i havent seen it any where in any search engines.i was getting better results than targetwords but as i said that in case of targetwords it could be anything as i never contacted them regarding this.I could have used them but as i told i was with search123.com

Well i am still planing to use them as their traking is one of the better one's but i havent heard much of them paying as they are fairly new in the industry and i am waiting for some good impressive comments against them .

I know its painful when one see its ideas transformed otherside :devious2: but one must talk peacefuly to other parties to know crux of it and continusley tune up toward inovation of its program.Its all competeion out here and its "survival of the fittest" :classic2:

Well i have nothing in my heart against any of the companies and i know both are good one's and i respect both of them and i think both are corect at its views and it can be solved in a much peaceful manner as i know both the companies are quite mature to solve in a peaceful manner..


just my 2 cents :)

Regards
Mastermind

http://www.bollyblues.com

[Damoose]

Revenue Pilto, you still ahvent answered my support email that i sent about codes i needed.

[RevenuePilot]

Hi,

I got email from our support team saying that they emailed again to you the codes today. Let me know if you got it, if you still have any problems feel free to email me directly anatoliyt@revenuepilot.com so I can make sure you get the right attention.

regards,




Originally posted by Damoose
Revenue Pilto, you still ahvent answered my support email that i sent about codes i needed.

[Jan]

Originally posted by }:8) Supermoo
If you can please make public, via posing here, or making available here, the terms given to you by the PPCSE companies in that exact order I would greatly appreciate it and fully appologise if it's verified.

You must understand from the point of a publisher at the moment, you appear to be copying TargetWords.com's creatives and text links without question, if you can prove otherwise with reasonable evidence your case will be much stronger.
Anatoliy, some time has passed now since }:8) Supermoo made this simple request of you, but you still haven't responded even though I know you have viewed the thread several times since then.

Do yourself and future affiliates a favour by responding to it one way or the other please. While it hangs in limbo, many people will be wary of your company.

[yaoming]

i tested revnuepilot yesterday

1.they only count traffic from a few country(the SI program also count traffic from Western Europe and other English countries,but they seems don't)
2. they only count clicks from Unique Ip in 24 hour.(some other search engine count by clicks not Unique ip,for example:searchfeed
most searchers will click more than one results but they don't count it,although their bid price is high,but 2xbid or 3xbid will higher than 1xbid in most case)
3.they say they pay in 60 days.that is slow.(SI program pay in 15 days after the billing period)and they say if use paypal will be quicker,so i don't know how quick it will be.

hope they will not cancle my account for these words.

:D

[tingin]

"...the SI program also count traffic from Western Europe and other English countries..."

What is this SI program that you are talking about?

[RevenuePilot]

Hi,

The reason I didn’t post any answer to this comment was because we are not going to disclose our partner contracts. We have very specific NDA agreements, and are committed to keeping them private. At this point I don’t think we have to provide any explanation to anybody, we decided simply not to react to this provocation. Over the past month RevenuePilot has experienced tremendous growth with revenue and number of affiliates growing over 100% each month. Our results can now be found on thousands of sites across the Internet, and we have thousands of satisfied webmasters in our network. Our commission rate's are the best in the industry, and we always pay on time. If you personally don’t like our program its OK with us, you are free not to use us.






Originally posted by Jan

Anatoliy, some time has passed now since }:8) Supermoo made this simple request of you, but you still haven't responded even though I know you have viewed the thread several times since then.

Do yourself and future affiliates a favour by responding to it one way or the other please. While it hangs in limbo, many people will be wary of your company.

[RevenuePilot]

Hi,

1.”they only count traffic from a few country(the SI program also count traffic from Western Europe and other English countries, but they seems don't)” As of right now we count traffic from US, Canada, UK, and Australia. Since we pay you 60% of the amount we are getting paid, we can only pay for the traffic which is considered valid by our partners and advertisers Remember we get paid for the same clicks you do.

2. “they only count clicks from Unique Ip in 24 hour.(some other search engine count by clicks not Unique ip,for example:searchfeed
most searchers will click more than one results but they don't count it,although their bid price is high,but 2xbid or 3xbid will higher than 1xbid in most case)” Hi we count unique clicks but for each unique keyword search, also we don’t filter out our results unlike other ppc companies. So at the end of the day you have to look at the total amount of clicks you send to the program, and the amount actually being counted. I personally believe that’s the only way to make valid conclusion.

3.”they say they pay in 60 days.that is slow.(SI program pay in 15 days after the billing period)and they say if use paypal will be quicker,so i don't know how quick it will be.” Most webmasters can tell you that we pay much earlier, the net 60 is just part of the contract to protect us in case we can’t collect money from advertisers within 15 days of the end of the month, etc. We would rather have net 60 and pay you in 15 days then have net 15 and pay you in 30 days, etc.

“hope they will not cancle my account for these words.” Don’t worry we will not cancel you account, in fact we always welcome constructive criticism as we are always looking to improve our program. Also I want to remind you and other webmasters to always look at the final results after using affiliate program for week, etc. As you already know we have the most detailed live stats in the industry, that insures that you will get paid for each and every valid click, unlike other ppc programs we don’t hide our stats. From our webmasters feedback we have found that at the end of the day our program is more profitable then our competitors programs, like everybody else you are welcomed to give us a try and see for yourself. After all it’s all about maximizing your revenue and that’s exactly our goal.


regards,




Originally posted by yaoming
i tested revnuepilot yesterday

1.they only count traffic from a few country(the SI program also count traffic from Western Europe and other English countries,but they seems don't)
2. they only count clicks from Unique Ip in 24 hour.(some other search engine count by clicks not Unique ip,for example:searchfeed
most searchers will click more than one results but they don't count it,although their bid price is high,but 2xbid or 3xbid will higher than 1xbid in most case)
3.they say they pay in 60 days.that is slow.(SI program pay in 15 days after the billing period)and they say if use paypal will be quicker,so i don't know how quick it will be.

hope they will not cancle my account for these words.

:D

[BrowseHosts]

hi there,
would our site be accepted?

[RevenuePilot]

Hi,

You are welcomed to apply. If you have any more questions please feel free to call or email us.

regards,





Originally posted by BrowseHosts
hi there,
would our site be accepted?

[BrowseHosts]

hey,
i dont really want to fill out the whole long form if i wont get accepted. can you just take a look at our site http://www.browsehosts.com and tell us?

[RevenuePilot]

Personally I think you have a very good targeted site, but I am not the one who is "accepting sites." So judging from your content, etc.. I would say you have above 95% chance of being accepted. hope this helps.

regards,





Originally posted by BrowseHosts
hey,
i dont really want to fill out the whole long form if i wont get accepted. can you just take a look at our site http://www.browsehosts.com and tell us?

[nitroboy]

Originally posted by yaoming

the SI program also count traffic from Western Europe and other English countriesROTFLMAO correction!!
even Belgium members are not accepted by any SI program, that's why I don't like them djeez...

if you don't know where Belgium is located, take a look at a world map and then you'll see Belgium is located in Western Europe

[Damoose]

thanx for changing the members area, i can log in now, thanx so much.

[RevenuePilot]

No problem, as you know we are constantly working on improving our technology. If you need anything else let me know. And in the future don’t hesitate to contact us if you have any ideas, comments or suggestions.

regards,




Originally posted by Damoose
thanx for changing the members area, i can log in now, thanx so much.

[BrowseHosts]

hey btw, we offer a similar deal to our affiliates,
but we only pay 20%. for the bigger affiliates we can go 50/50.

[}:8) Supermoo]

Anatoliy,

You're missing the issue, the issue is your company, RevenuePilot stealing intellectual property from its competitor, TargetWords. Your company is being accused of theft. Surely you should be treating this with a little bit more respect, if nothing else, as to highlight your alleged professionalism and respect for business ethics. If you were serious about your affiliate program and your affiliates certainly you would have answered these claims instead of making many unsubstantiated, emotive claims and attacks.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
Now I don't really know, and don't really care if the statements he posted are right or not, but as a professional with some kind of respect and business ethics I ...

You should care whither his statements are correct, I'm sure you're aware of the cost, time and effort gone into developing an affiliate program. This is also true for the creatives a program uses, as such, you should care if you've been found to be stealing from your competitors.

As for the professionalism, you have shown none of those business ethics.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
The reason I didn't post any answer to this comment was because we are not going to disclose our partner contracts. We have very specific NDA agreements, and are committed to keeping them private.

I'm not sure about your specific contract, although I would be greatly worried if your company was unable to post creatives you have received from a partner of your company. Surely this would mean that you are unable to reproduce them in you affiliate program, and if this was the case, you'd be in breach of your partnership agreement already. You've even stated yourself that:


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
The terms are provided all the time by all ppc search engine partners and are not in any way unique. Also they are not in any way copyright protected and are used by virtually all ppc networks to direct visitors to high paying search results.

So these search terms for text-links, and in particular the text-link directories, that are provided "all the time" and are "in no way unique", are according to you confidential and cannot be disclosed by you? But you go on to say that they are "not in any way copy protected and are used by virtually all ppc networks to direct visitors". If they are in no way copy protected why can you not post them? If they are so readily available then why has no other search-engine affiliate program come close to this format, with the EXACT same links, in the EXACT same order, with arguably EXACT HTML coding. It's a disgrace to think that you can get away with this theft, and it's insulting to think that you could try to cover this up from affiliates.

Please try to adhere to my simple request, or it can be assumed that with reasonable doubt you have stolen Oversee's Intellectual Property of "text-link directories" creatives, as demonstrated in the posts above.

Now to analyse your business ethics in this thread;

Originally posted by RevenuePilot
I will respond to all the issues one by one, but first I just wanted to say that I am really amazed which measures some people will take, just to bash their competitors.

I think you'll find that these claims are related to Intellectual Property infringement, which you have breached. Is it wrong for Warner Brothers to shutdown VCD copying houses pirating their material? According to the reasoning illustrated in the quote above one might think you'd argue that Warner Brothers are simply trying to 'bash' their competitors.

The Oversee representative on this board, Lawrence, only brought up "blatant intellectual property violation". He did in no shape or form, try to 'bash' you, as such your statement could be considered very harsh and defamatory.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
2) Our "Search Directories" are unique and we have all the rights in the world to design our own search directories, just like any webmaster has the right to design his own banner. I really don't think you own the patent for the "Search Directories" concept like the Unicast owns the patent for the ad delivery methods. So if we design our own "Search Directories" does that mean that we got "heavy *inspiration*" from targetwords? Does it mean that while designing MSN instant messenger Microsoft got heavy inspiration from AOL "Instant Messenger"? I don't think so, I think you just don't like the whole concept of market economy and competition!

Once again you seem to have neglected the issue at hand and traveled on a tangent of your own. You are not being told that you cannot use the Search Directory idea, which has been used by various other affiliate programs including, but not limited to; SearchBucks (now Search123) and SearchTraffic.

What you have been accused of, if you read Lawrence's original post, is:

Originally posted by Lawrence
Although not 100% identical, I submit that heavy *inspiration* was drawn from our TargetWords.com search directories/panel
This is shown in the supporting HTML document (http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/search-panels.html ), in which your creatives are shown to have the EXACT same text-links on the EXACT same banners. Which I might add, are in your administration areas in the EXACT same order.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
3) Your "Faq Section" is again not in any ways unique, and most importantly not the same as ours. Questions like: "Do you allow incentivized traffic?, etc." are the basic questions in the industry due to ppc partners contracts and are being asked by virtually all ppc affiliate programs.

You're failing to see that these were copied word for word, only replacing one word in the given example. This goes beyond reasonable doubt, the English language can be used in many different ways to achieve the same outcome. When several of these different FAQ items are phrased and worded EXACTLY the same, suspicion should be aroused.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
Also I would like to point out that RevenuePilot has more linking options and completely different user interface and admin . While you may find some similarities it is only natural for it to occur due to the industry nature and similar requirements by all ppc partners.

I'm afraid this seems to have gone well beyond 'similarities'.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
Again I am really shocked by this unethical public attack and would like to challenge Lawrence to show anything illegal in our practices, while we had some webmasters switching to our program from TargetWords due to our higher commissions I never expected it would lead to the above.

I question your usage of the term 'unethical' in the extract above; unethical according Princeton University's WordNet is:

unethical

adj 1: not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices" [ant: ethical] 2: not adhering to ethical or moral principles;

How is it unethical to defend one's own Intellectual Property rights? How is it unethical to defend ones rights in a public space? How did you turn Oversee's claim into an attack? I think you'll find that Oversee are trying to defend their rights.


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
At this point I don't think we have to provide any explanation to anybody, we decided simply not to react to this provocation.

I further wish to question your intended usage of the English language in this last, damaging paragraph. You claim "...we decided simply not to react to this provocation." According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary that is to;

provocation

\Prov`o*ca"tion\, n. [F. provocation, L. provocatio. See Provoke.] 1. The act of provoking, or causing vexation or, anger. --Fabyan.

2. That which provokes, or excites anger; the cause of resentment; as, to give provocation. --Paley.

3. Incitement; stimulus; as, provocation to mirth.

4. (Law) Such prior insult or injury as may be supposed, under the circumstances, to create hot blood, and to excuse an assault made in retort or redress.

5. An appeal to a court.
I'm not sure which definition you're referencing to as I was merely trying to establish whether you were wishing to back up or support your earlier unsubstantiated claims. Obviously you don't consider your affiliates to be worthy enough of this information. Once again your business ethics are the ones to be scrutinised.

Although you might not think it's important, I believe the webmasters on this forum deserve a 'fair go'. You were given a chance to try and explain that you didn't blatantly steal from Oversee, I’ve contacted your briefly regarding the matter privately, and you’ve ruined that opportunity. Although I would happily relax and/or retract the following warning if you will show me verified evidence to support your earlier claims, I don't think you will be. As such, I would strongly recommend that affiliates exercise extreme caution in joining and participating in the RevenuePilot affiliate program.

Edit: Grammar

[gas0]

In the Reporting Section of the RevenuePilot,

Once a user from IP: 100 100 100 00

If they EVER CLick Again... It wont be counted!

This sucks for me and my site... because most of my users are return users....

1 click per User... EVER! OUCH!

Please change this or reply er somthin!

THanks!
Jason

[tingin]

I don't know about your account but in my stats i see alot of same IPs that i'm paid for.

You should ask revenuepilot about this.

[Jan]

Originally posted by gas0
In the Reporting Section of the RevenuePilot,

Once a user from IP: 100 100 100 00

If they EVER CLick Again... It wont be counted!
Hi Jason, does it actually say that in the reporting section? If so could you please provide a screenshot for us?

[RevenuePilot]

It is clear that it’s not a coincidence that you are one of the only two webmasters to have personal quote on http://targetwords.com/about.phtml#quotes Like I said before I will not respond to any provocation’s. We don’t really care that you have to say, since you have a personal agenda in providing negative feedback about our company. The only thing that matters to us is the fact that we have thousands of happy affiliates, who are always getting paid on time and enjoying our high bid prices.




Originally posted by }:8) Supermoo
Anatoliy,

You're missing the issue, the issue is your company, RevenuePilot stealing intellectual property from its competitor, TargetWords. Your company is being accused of theft. Surely you should be treating this with a little bit more respect, if nothing else, as to highlight your alleged professionalism and respect for business ethics. If you were serious about your affiliate program and your affiliates certainly you would have answered these claims instead of making many unsubstantiated, emotive claims and attacks.



You should care whither his statements are correct, I'm sure you're aware of the cost, time and effort gone into developing an affiliate program. This is also true for the creatives a program uses, as such, you should care if you've been found to be stealing from your competitors.

As for the professionalism, you have shown none of those business ethics.



I'm not sure about your specific contract, although I would be greatly worried if your company was unable to post creatives you have received from a partner of your company. Surely this would mean that you are unable to reproduce them in you affiliate program, and if this was the case, you'd be in breach of your partnership agreement already. You've even stated yourself that:



So these search terms for text-links, and in particular the text-link directories, that are provided "all the time" and are "in no way unique", are according to you confidential and cannot be disclosed by you? But you go on to say that they are "not in any way copy protected and are used by virtually all ppc networks to direct visitors". If they are in no way copy protected why can you not post them? If they are so readily available then why has no other search-engine affiliate program come close to this format, with the EXACT same links, in the EXACT same order, with arguably EXACT HTML coding. It's a disgrace to think that you can get away with this theft, and it's insulting to think that you could try to cover this up from affiliates.

Please try to adhere to my simple request, or it can be assumed that with reasonable doubt you have stolen Oversee's Intellectual Property of "text-link directories" creatives, as demonstrated in the posts above.

Now to analyse your business ethics in this thread;


I think you'll find that these claims are related to Intellectual Property infringement, which you have breached. Is it wrong for Warner Brothers to shutdown VCD copying houses pirating their material? According to the reasoning illustrated in the quote above one might think you'd argue that Warner Brothers are simply trying to 'bash' their competitors.

The Oversee representative on this board, Lawrence, only brought up "blatant intellectual property violation". He did in no shape or form, try to 'bash' you, as such your statement could be considered very harsh and defamatory.



Once again you seem to have neglected the issue at hand and traveled on a tangent of your own. You are not being told that you cannot use the Search Directory idea, which has been used by various other affiliate programs including, but not limited to; SearchBucks (now Search123) and SearchTraffic.

What you have been accused of, if you read Lawrence's original post, is:

This is shown in the supporting HTML document (http://oversee.net/misc/lawrenceng/revenuepilot/search-panels.html ), in which your creatives are shown to have the EXACT same text-links on the EXACT same banners. Which I might add, are in your administration areas in the EXACT same order.



You're failing to see that these were copied word for word, only replacing one word in the given example. This goes beyond reasonable doubt, the English language can be used in many different ways to achieve the same outcome. When several of these different FAQ items are phrased and worded EXACTLY the same, suspicion should be aroused.



I'm afraid this seems to have gone well beyond 'similarities'.



I question your usage of the term 'unethical' in the extract above; unethical according Princeton University's WordNet is:


How is it unethical to defend one's own Intellectual Property rights? How is it unethical to defend ones rights in a public space? How did you turn Oversee's claim into an attack? I think you'll find that Oversee are trying to defend their rights.



I further wish to question your intended usage of the English language in this last, damaging paragraph. You claim "...we decided simply not to react to this provocation." According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary that is to;

I'm not sure which definition you're referencing to as I was merely trying to establish whether you were wishing to back up or support your earlier unsubstantiated claims. Obviously you don't consider your affiliates to be worthy enough of this information. Once again your business ethics are the ones to be scrutinised.

Although you might not think it's important, I believe the webmasters on this forum deserve a 'fair go'. You were given a chance to try and explain that you didn't blatantly steal from Oversee, I’ve contacted your briefly regarding the matter privately, and you’ve ruined that opportunity. Although I would happily relax and/or retract the following warning if you will show me verified evidence to support your earlier claims, I don't think you will be. As such, I would strongly recommend that affiliates exercise extreme caution in joining and participating in the RevenuePilot affiliate program.

Edit: Grammar

[RevenuePilot]

Hi I just wanted once again to clear up on how we count valid clicks. The way we count stats is we pay once for each keyword each person visits per 24 hours. So if a person from IP 100.100.100.100 clicks on results for keyword "gifts" and then clicks on results for keyword "flowers" he will get paid for both clicks. However, if that person clicks many time on the keyword "flowers" within 24 hours then only the first flowers click counts and other clicks don't, since our advertisers are not charged for duplicate clicks from 1 IP. We can only pay affiliates when we charge our advertisers and advertisers don't pay us for many clicks from the same IP, only for unique clicks. Let me know if you still have any questins, I will be more then happy to answer them.

regards,




Originally posted by gas0
In the Reporting Section of the RevenuePilot,

Once a user from IP: 100 100 100 00

If they EVER CLick Again... It wont be counted!

This sucks for me and my site... because most of my users are return users....

1 click per User... EVER! OUCH!

Please change this or reply er somthin!

THanks!
Jason

[}:8) Supermoo]

Anatoliy,


Originally posted by RevenuePilot
It is clear that it’s not a coincidence that you are one of the only two webmasters to have personal quote on http://targetwords.com/about.phtml#quotes Like I said before I will not respond to any provocation’s. We don’t really care that you have to say, since you have a personal agenda in providing negative feedback about our company. The only thing that matters to us is the fact that we have thousands of happy affiliates, who are always getting paid on time and enjoying our high bid prices.

How can you attempt to reduce an argument about the integrity of your affiliate program, and its alleged theft? Then try and cover the issue of your company RevenuePilot, stealing from Oversee? You cannot try to talk about another topic with me unless you show proof to support your earlier claims, admit guilt, or stop trying to attack people who actually have evidence against you. My personal agenda is to get to the truth.

Although I'm not one sided, and I will answer all of your questions. I would expect that this courtesy would at least get you to respond to my central question asking you for proof to support your earlier claims.

Yes, I am quoted on the Targetwords.com forum saying what I say in here and at other affiliate and webmaster communities when asked about affiliate programs. Although Oversee are not the only company that I have kind words for like;

TargetWords has some of the best customer service I've ever seen in any affiliate program, their payments are consistent and always on- time, occasionaly they even send cheques early. A great program which I strongly reccomend.
I also have nice words for Standard Internet who also issue payments nearly on-time every month (there was a bit of a gap after September 11th 2001, although I'm sure most people would accept that), they have high-paying programs and their customer service has improved a great deal recently.
Both of those companies have paid me my affiliate cheques, consistantly and on-time.
It is for that same reason that I've posted support for affiliate companies such as DataCom, FocusIN (breifly, no longer recommended) and I’m beginning to post regarding DirectLeads.
They also contact me regarding my questions with full and in-depth answers in reasonably small amounts of time.
It is for that reason in which I've posted support for affiliate companies such as FindIt-Quick and SearchFeed.
In fact I still strongly recommend most of these companies, and would recommend them all over RevenuePilot.

Now I would like to restate my opening to my previous post as I don't think you've fully understood it. I suggest you re-read it to fully gather what this issue is about;


Anatoliy,

You're missing the issue, the issue is your company, RevenuePilot stealing intellectual property from its competitor, TargetWords. Your company is being accused of theft. Surely you should be treating this with a little bit more respect, if nothing else, as to highlight your alleged professionalism and respect for business ethics. If you were serious about your affiliate program and your affiliates certainly you would have answered these claims instead of making many unsubstantiated, emotive claims and attacks.

Webmasters,

Affiliate Programs I recommend you investigate and join before joining RevenuePilot include;
Targetwords (http://www.targetwords.com/) - where some of RevenuePilots creatives originated from
SearchTraffic (http://www.searchtraffic.com/)
TextLinks (http://www.textlinks.com/)
Searchfeed (http://www.searchfeed.com/) - Offer a percentage for webmasters
7Search (http://www.7search.com/)
IgniteSearch (http://ignitesearch.com/)
FindIt-Quick (http://www.findit-quick.com/2affiliate.html)
ClickThruTraffic (http://www.ClickThruTraffic.com/)
GoClick (http://www.goclick.com/) (Be warned pay-out rates may change without notice)

Also, try to follow recommendations from this forum and places like this SearchPrograms (http://www.searchprograms.com/recommended.html).

I would strongly recommend that affiliates exercise extreme caution in joining and participating in the RevenuePilot affiliate program.

[spec]

I dont know much about whats going on but i think that if one company has a complaint about another they should take legal action. I do not think it is their responsibility to trial themselves in a public forum. True these things allegations can hurt their reputation and not responding could have positive/negitive effects on them, but they are willing to take that risk.

The way you are hustling him makes me wonder if you have bias.

but thats just what i get from stopping by

[Jan]

Originally posted by spec
The way you are hustling him makes me wonder if you have bias.
It is not a matter of hustling or bias and a lot of posts in this thread could have been avoided if Anatoliy had just addressed the main issue here instead of skirting around it.

[}:8) Supermoo]

Thank you Jan for clarifying the issue. :)

[tingin]

Right now from what i tested revenuepilot pays the most. Supermoo did you try all those programs that you mentioned?
Which program has higher prices/commisions than revenuepilot?

[RevenuePilot]

While this might hurt your self-ego, I will say it once again, to us you are totally irrelevant. We are not obligated in any way to respond to any of your questions or to provide any information if we don’t feel it is appropriate.




Originally posted by }:8) Supermoo
Anatoliy,



How can you attempt to reduce an argument about the integrity of your affiliate program, and its alleged theft? Then try and cover the issue of your company RevenuePilot, stealing from Oversee? You cannot try to talk about another topic with me unless you show proof to support your earlier claims, admit guilt, or stop trying to attack people who actually have evidence against you. My personal agenda is to get to the truth.

Although I'm not one sided, and I will answer all of your questions. I would expect that this courtesy would at least get you to respond to my central question asking you for proof to support your earlier claims.

Yes, I am quoted on the Targetwords.com forum saying what I say in here and at other affiliate and webmaster communities when asked about affiliate programs. Although Oversee are not the only company that I have kind words for like;

I also have nice words for Standard Internet who also issue payments nearly on-time every month (there was a bit of a gap after September 11th 2001, although I'm sure most people would accept that), they have high-paying programs and their customer service has improved a great deal recently.
Both of those companies have paid me my affiliate cheques, consistantly and on-time.
It is for that same reason that I've posted support for affiliate companies such as DataCom, FocusIN (breifly, no longer recommended) and I’m beginning to post regarding DirectLeads.
They also contact me regarding my questions with full and in-depth answers in reasonably small amounts of time.
It is for that reason in which I've posted support for affiliate companies such as FindIt-Quick and SearchFeed.
In fact I still strongly recommend most of these companies, and would recommend them all over RevenuePilot.

Now I would like to restate my opening to my previous post as I don't think you've fully understood it. I suggest you re-read it to fully gather what this issue is about;



Webmasters,

Affiliate Programs I recommend you investigate and join before joining RevenuePilot include;
Targetwords (http://www.targetwords.com/) - where some of RevenuePilots creatives originated from
SearchTraffic (http://www.searchtraffic.com/)
TextLinks (http://www.textlinks.com/)
Searchfeed (http://www.searchfeed.com/) - Offer a percentage for webmasters
7Search (http://www.7search.com/)
IgniteSearch (http://ignitesearch.com/)
FindIt-Quick (http://www.findit-quick.com/2affiliate.html)
ClickThruTraffic (http://www.ClickThruTraffic.com/)
GoClick (http://www.goclick.com/) (Be warned pay-out rates may change without notice)

Also, try to follow recommendations from this forum and places like this SearchPrograms (http://www.searchprograms.com/recommended.html).

I would strongly recommend that affiliates exercise extreme caution in joining and participating in the RevenuePilot affiliate program.

[Jan]

Originally posted by RevenuePilot
While this might hurt your self-ego, I will say it once again, to us you are totally irrelevant. We are not obligated in any way to respond to any of your questions or to provide any information if we don’t feel it is appropriate.
Okay Anatoliy, I doubt this will hurt }:8) Supermoo's self ego, but it may just hurt your business. People searching for info on your company in time to come will see this thread and make their own decisions.