Why are some countries denied???

[bobyx]

Why do some ad companies (especially SI) reject webmasters from countries other than the so called developed countries??

(Albania, Argentina, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Cuba, Estonia, Georgia, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kaliningrad, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Korea (North and South), Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malaysia, Moldova, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Saudia Arabia Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Trinidad, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam, and Yugoslavia)

Is it illegal to pay webmasters from these countries? Is there a problem to send a check there? Maybe they just don't want to earn money... :(

[}:8) Supermoo]

They have a higher chance at cheating their programs, so much higher that they find it un-competative and un-profitable to do it. I think. ;)

[Czar]

The other major reason is due to the fact that SI has to appeal to advertisers as much as to publishers.

You'll notice that all of the countries appearing on the banned list have a language other than English as their nation's official tongue. For this reason, advertisers (whose ads and/or sites are presented in English) realise that they would be wasting much of their budget if their ads appeared on non-English sites.

[Cheap Bastard]

the advertisers want to advertise their products to people that actually have money to buy their products. No offense, but most of those countries are pretty poor, with a fairly poor population as well.

[polygon]

Bulgaria, specifically, has a bad reputation due to the origination of many computer viruses there. At one point, at least, Bulgaria led the entire world (ahead of the U.S., Russia, the rest of Europe, Japan, etc.) as the breeding ground for new computer viruses. And, last I heard, Bulgaria had no laws restricting the creation or dissemination of viruses, and in any event, no resources to enforce such laws even if they were enacted.

An article in a computer security magazine a couple of years ago chronicled the difficulties this has created for legitimate and often highly skilled computer professionals of Bulgarian origin who attempt to find jobs elsewhere in the world.

Or, in general, imagine being a U.S. person or company who is the victim of a swindle perpetrated in one of those countries. For example, let's say your phone credit card number was used to make hundreds of calls to or from some less-developed, non-English speaking country. The investigation of the fraud would be difficult, expensive, and require the full cooperation of an often hostile and corrupt foreign police service. I don't think AT&T even bothers.

Arguably, it's unfair to refuse to deal with customers (or in this case webmasters) from such countries, but given the practical difficulties, I can sort of sympathize.

[jw]

i think theres a list somewhere of all the banned countried businesses in the US are not supposed to do business with...anyone know of one? Most of these countries have some bone to pick with the US or the other way around...whether it be security risks, trade embargoes (sp?), etc.

[LastActionHero]

I wrote to SI why I is my country being denied? and he said it's because of the cost of posting cheques and other processing costs..they come out too high.

[dgessler]

im glad i live in us

[wsz]

Originally posted by Czar
You'll notice that all of the countries appearing on the banned list have a language other than English as their nation's official tongue. For this reason, advertisers (whose ads and/or sites are presented in English) realise that they would be wasting much of their budget if their ads appeared on non-English sites.


If that were the real problem, then sponsors could just specify that they will only accept English-language sites. And perhaps also specify that the sites must appeal to a US audience and/or have significant US traffic.

Reasons for country-based restrictions:

1. High fraud rates in some countries inspire some advertisers to decide it isn't worth the hassle to aquire the honest publishers in those places while booting all the cheaters.

2. Certain countries (Cuba, Vietnam, Lybia, Iraq, and North Korea), are on a US government blacklist restricting American companies from doing business with companies or individuals in those places.

3. Sponsors may be aware of very high banking fees for deposting/converting US-dollar cheques in certain countries, which would consume a large portion of a publisher's payments.

4. In *some* cases, it is just a matter of ignorance. Some sponsors will actually say that, since their products/services are directed towards Americans, they will reject *all* non-US-based publishers, suggesting that they think that the publisher's location somehow automatically indicates/restricts the visitors' locations. I have received this type of rejection a few times, even with a site which is in English, has *very* US-centric content (including much which is useful *only* to Americans), and with other US-directed sponsors performing decently.

[Cheap Bastard]

4. ... they will reject *all* non-US-based publishers, suggesting that they think that the publisher's location somehow automatically indicates/restricts the visitors' locations. ...

I can see why you're ticked off by this, and you've got a counter-example... But you must admit, it usually is this way...

[Czar]

If that were the real problem, then sponsors could just specify that they will only accept English-language sites. And perhaps also specify that the sites must appeal to a US audience and/or have significant US traffic.

And would you like some hefty overheads with that, SIr?

For SI, or affiliate managers such as they, who accept sites instantly, and who manage 1000s of individual accounts, checking each site manually and making a judgement (or seeking evidence) as to the proportion of its visitors who are US-based would result in additional expenses that are not consistent with the program's goals.

Keep in mind also that SI and others allow you to host their creatives on any site that you own, as long as it conforms to their terms and conditions, without informing them in advance.


3. Sponsors may be aware of very high banking fees for deposting/converting US-dollar cheques in certain countries, which would consume a large portion of a publisher's payments.

Why would they care about this? Isn't this even more incentive for foreign publishers to push their programs harder, in order to minimise the proprtion of their revenue that is eaten away by transaction fees?

Also, most programs (including SI's) allow you to specify your own minimum payment threshold. Thus, you can stick with their $25 default, or request that no checks are sent until $100 is reached.

[Rich Bastard]

the real & only reasons are the high rate of fraud coming from these countries and the inability of US businesses to prosecute criminals in other countries.
Bank fees don't matter, postage, etc.

[b]

most ad agnecies accept your site regardles of your location as long it's in english. SI is an exception

[Czar]

b, although "most" is a very broad term, your assumption that SI is an exception in this is incorrect.

I would suggest that the majority of online ad networks restrict certain countries from participation in their programs, and that 25-50% restrict participation to just a handful of major English-speaking nations.

Some examples:
1. WebsiteSponsors
2. Websponsors.com
3. MailBits
4. AdFlight
5. ADictive
6. etc, etc, etc...

If you were from Korea, China or Iraq, I think you'd soon notice just how wide such restrictions extend.

[Rich Bastard]

most of the ones that accepted all countries last year are out of business now.

I wonder why. :)

[Cheap Bastard]

i don't...

[b]

because of my job i have lived in 3 different countries in the last 3 years and i have used adflight, websponsors and both have sent me the check overseas (japan, jordan, germany)
how many people live in iraq and own a website?
none
all sites are owned by the government.
SI is an exception!
tell me an ad company that refuse webmasters from at least 30 countries?
websitesponsors does not mention that on their website

[Rich Bastard]

in 30 seconds without looking around?

ok, searchrevenue.com

[}:8) Supermoo]

SI has just changed to a review each foriegn webite system now. Oh no! :(

[jpoc]

Originally posted by b

tell me an ad company that refuse webmasters from at least 30 countries?
websitesponsors does not mention that on their website



from the top of my head, tripod, terrashare and aadzz.

OK, the first two are hosts but they do pay ad revenue to webmasters in the US and Canada.

Of the companies that I have looked at recently, about 40% have substantial restrictions.

Also, there is one other reason for advertisers imposing restrictions that nobody has spotted. That is tax. A US ad agency is in trouble if it pays a webmaster in the US who then fails to pay income tax. A small number of agencies pay only to US webmasters who can quote a US SS number. They prefer to do that because they have a higher paperwork overhead if they pay non-US webmasters and then have to demonstrate to their tax assessors that they are not paying US webmasters who are using an overseas address.

The claims that others have made about language just do not hold up. At least two of the countries in the list that started this thread have English as an official language and another (second most populous country in the world) has English as an "Associate" language. Furthermore, there are many many countries that do not have English as an official language which are allowed.

I am also rather bemused by the claim that Japan, and all Eastern European countries are not developed nations.

jpoc

[Czar]

B:


i have used adflight, websponsors and both have sent me the check overseas (japan, jordan, germany)

That was in the past. AdFlight now only accept publishers from the US:
http://www.adflight.com/solutions/publishers/FAQs/pubfaq.asp

Websponsors.com only accepts US publishers:
https://secure.websponsors.com/cgi-bin/signup.pl



websitesponsors does not mention that on their website

Trust me. They only accept websites from the US and Canada. If you doubt me, feel free to contact Chet at chet@websitesponsors.com for clarification.

SI is not alone. ;)

[b]

i live in the us now so it's not an issue to me.
websponsors does mention in a rare situation they would accept foriegn websites. my best friend went to school with the founder and if i ever use them and happen to live overseas they will send me the check but i do not think of them as a must as i never made much money with them.
adflight have cancelled alot of sites. anyone still with them? i do not think they are accepting new sites.
websitesponsors is not accepting new sites either. i heard they are not running any ads now. right now you will have problems getting accepted to any ad agency regardless of your country. many of the ad agencies you mentioned are very small and it will not make or break a webmaster (tripod???) what's the most you ever made with them?
if you made that much, you better off getting your own server.
when major ad agencies like flycast and doubelclick stop sending checks overseas then i'm worried and may stop accepting jobs overseas but when you tell me tripod and some affilaite progarms do not that's not a big problem
i thought about starting a new ad agency but i decided to wait until the economy improve. things are really bad now.
do not blame it on your residence.

[pk]

SO, affilate programs deny a country because they THINK the people in the country will cheat? That's just not fair for them.

BTW, i live in Toronto, so, :)

[Cheap Bastard]

hmm
that's basically what cheaters cause... distrust of other people of their group...

(for example: would you rather buy a random apple out of a basket with 90% rotten apples, or would you rather buy a random apple out of a basket with 10% rotten apples)

note: due to the nature of spoilable fruits, there's always rotten apples, so don't go ''i'll buy a random apple out of a basket with 0% rotten apples''. Sorry, i've talked with too many smart-alleks

[LastActionHero]

how wud a network stand to lose money, by allowing people from countries other than us or canada to join them? False traffic? anybody can do that, the internet has no boundaries. Ok, if people from other countries forge or drive in false traffic the network can always suspend their accounts and withold payments. I believe no person has been ever sued for generating false traffic by an affiliate network?!(even in us and canada)

[Robert from SI]

>>>>
I believe no person has been ever sued for generating false traffic by an affiliate network?
>>>>>

You would be incorrect in that assumption.

[Czar]

Artificially inflating your traffic (and thus revenue) from an affiliate program is classified as fraud, just as would be any similar offline action.

If the offense is small enough, you'll be dropped from the program and possibly placed on an affiliate blacklist. If the scam amounts to several thousand dollars, you will very likely end up in court. - This is one of the reasons that ad networks play it safe by accepting affiliates from just a few nations (since prosecuting across borders is difficult and expensive).

In a perfect world, there would be no cheaters or trade embargos, but in the real world, there will always be losers who try to scam money from ad networks, which in turn hurts us all.

[SSacobie]

Blacklisting and fraud are what I see as the only real issues for banning certain countries.

I disagree with the theory of native language. In America, how many people speak Spanish natively? They say that within 50 years, Spanish people will be in the majority in this country. Consider the success of Telemundo. It's one of the top TV stations in the country. In Japan, how many people speak English? The base of a person/company does not determine what language is spoken. So how do you know, if you're accepting a US-based site, that it's not in Spanish, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or any one of the other dozens of languages spoken throughout the country? I don't see country-based determination as foolproof. Somewhere someone has to check everything to make sure.

I doubt that sending checks to you would be that much more expensive than sending checks to US webmasters. However, it is true that, for most foreigners (and this includes places like England and Australia), the bank fees associated with US checks are hefty. The only country I've never run into a problem as far as this goes (though they do sometimes hold checks for weeks) is Canada. And Canada is basically the US, only cold.

But the reality is that if a network doesn't accept webmasters from your country, find someone who does, as there's really nothing you can do about it, and they probably won't change their policy. With all the various programs out there, surely people can find something.

[Edited by SSacobie on 03-31-2001 at 02:59 PM]

[Valuablehost]

Hey dont put me down! i am an iraqi!

salam aliek, la shonlak?

We do have the internet and it isnt controlled by the government! we have 4 nationwide isps!

Regards,
ValuableHost
P.S i live in australia not iraq :)

Originally posted by b
because of my job i have lived in 3 different countries in the last 3 years and i have used adflight, websponsors and both have sent me the check overseas (japan, jordan, germany)
how many people live in iraq and own a website?
none
all sites are owned by the government.
SI is an exception!
tell me an ad company that refuse webmasters from at least 30 countries?
websitesponsors does not mention that on their website

[Dodzzz]

Originally posted by Cheap Bastard
(for example: would you rather buy a random apple out of a basket with 90% rotten apples, or would you rather buy a random apple out of a basket with 10% rotten apples)


WRONG!!

If I'm buying something, I will select it first, I'll take a deep look, touch it if necessary, and etc etc..

hmm, is that really 90:10 ??? I need a prove please..^_^


thanks.

[b]

Valuablehost,
i'm not putting the iraqi people down. i'm stating
because of UN sanctions, it's not easy for the average person living in iraq to develop a website.
do u know of any iraqi based sites not developed
by the government?

[Czar]

UN trade sanctions generally only affect certain forms of cross-border trade and support. Thus, while an Iraqi individual may be prohibited from selling to Americans (or gain advertising revenue from foreign entities), it's my understanding that there's nothing stopping him/her from establishing a site that targets the local market and those nations who don't recognise the UN's governing power.

Also, there has been much criticism over the continuing sanctions against Iraq, and they could very well be broken down soon. You may find the following resources to be eye-opening:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/indexone.htm
http://www.iraqi-mission.org/sancnew.htm
http://www.iraqaction.org/11myths.html

[Valuablehost]

Hi,

Yes czar it is true, the more U.S bomb iraq the more iraq gets stronger, due to the fact it gets foreign support also he is telling the arab leaders he will lead a force against israel which makes him their ally.

Originally posted by Czar
UN trade sanctions generally only affect certain forms of cross-border trade and support. Thus, while an Iraqi individual may be prohibited from selling to Americans (or gain advertising revenue from foreign entities), it's my understanding that there's nothing stopping him/her from establishing a site that targets the local market and those nations who don't recognise the UN's governing power.

Also, there has been much criticism over the continuing sanctions against Iraq, and they could very well be broken down soon. You may find the following resources to be eye-opening:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/indexone.htm
http://www.iraqi-mission.org/sancnew.htm
http://www.iraqaction.org/11myths.html

[}:8) Supermoo]

USA Readers:

China's got ya plane! :)