God

[Dean]

Today been ash wendsday, kinda ironic after columbia, just wanna see what FWS thinks about "God"

[n7of9]

i'm definately an athiest

[Toefur]

I don't think any form of god or gods exist.

I'm a nihilist, freethinker, and atheist. :p

[Blank Verse]

Add me to the athiest group. I answer to myself and that's it.

[Akalon]

Agnostic

[Coolin]

I believe He exists.

[Kaliber]

He doesn't exist, and anyone who thinks he does prove it

[is0lized]

Doesn't exist in my mind.

http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117372

Made a thread a week back or so...

[CareBear]

Originally posted by Kaliber
He doesn't exist, and anyone who thinks he does prove it Can you proove without a doubt God doesn't exist though?
And why would it be a 'he' or a 'she' for that matter...

[conkermaniac]

I believe that there is a God, but I absolutely hate the institution of religion. Of the major world religions, Islam is the absolute worst because it promotes intolerance (of homosexuals, for example). Judaism, Hindusim, and Christianity should not be ignored for all the problems they have caused in this world, however. They promote intolerance to a great extent, and while Muslim and Christians frown upon Muslims for their "extremist beliefs", they should look inwards and notice the glaring flaws with their own religions. :mad:

I think religion should be destroyed, but that does not necessarily mean that I hate followers of a particular religion.

[manni]

I don't believe in God.

[anhedonia]

Originally posted by Kaliber
He doesn't exist, and anyone who thinks he does prove it

That's a tired argument.

[byrdgirl13]

I think there's an important point to make about religion...a quote I heard once, I think it was Ghandi that said this, when asked what he thought of Christianity: "It's a good idea; somebody should try it."

The 'Christians' who have caused such problems you talk about (biggest example is Crusades) are not really following Christ. Christ taught peace; "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;" "Love your neighbor as yourself." He didn't teach anything like 'go kill people who don't believe what you do.' Sadly, many people who claim Christianity do this anyway.

And yes, I believe in God.

[byrdgirl13]

Originally posted by Kaliber
He doesn't exist, and anyone who thinks he does prove it

Look around you, could a world this complex and functional be an accident, just happenchance? The world is like a watch - you find a watch lying out in the middle of the woods, do you assume it made itself? No. Someone had to put it there.

And if you think God doesn't exist, why don't you prove it?

[awayfromforum]

Originally posted by CareBear
Can you proove without a doubt God doesn't exist though?
And why would it be a 'he' or a 'she' for that matter... '


Can you prove "it" exists?

[byrdgirl13]

Actually, if you want to place the burden of proof, that one goes to those who think God doesn't exist. In science, you cannot prove something DOES exist, only if it doesn't. That's why the theories and laws of science can change; we only assume them true because they have not been proved false.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by byrdgirl13
Look around you, could a world this complex and functional be an accident, just happenchance? The world is like a watch - you find a watch lying out in the middle of the woods, do you assume it made itself? No. Someone had to put it there.

And if you think God doesn't exist, why don't you prove it?

Of course a world as complex as this could have been caused by accident, there is nothing to suggest it is otherwise. How do we know that we have seen design only as a result of intelligent action? We don't. All of nature may be proof of unintelligent design, and scientists have found a great deal of evidence to support the belief that unintelligent design exists in abundance.

Think of it like this: just like a 'god' can have a complex nature (such as his own intelligence and moral character) without intelligent design, so can a universe with its laws.

As for proving the non-existence of god; when it comes to the existence of God, it is the believers who are asserting something, so the burden of proof is on their heads, and as such it is up to them to prove that their assertion is correct.

[byrdgirl13]

I believe, it's not like I'm telling you that you have to. If the accounts in the Bible - besides the world itself - are not enough for you to believe in God, so be it, but they are proof enough for me.

...By the way, what do you suppose the chances are that such a perfectly functioning world as this just randomly formed? One in several hundred trillion? More like one in a mole. (if not less likely)

[kabatak]

we'll know everything when we die

[notnamed]

*da nah nah nah nah nah*
"I'm a believer..."
Uh yeah. He exists and I'm taking Creationism classes to proove Toefur wrong :devious2:

[Webdude]

After we are dead and you are facing God, and I am watching....you can bet I will say "Is this proof enough?"

In the end though, the God believers win out. If we are right, we get the last laugh. If we are wrong...guess what? You STILL dont get the last laugh. On top of it all, you have proven nothing. So that means God can only be proven, not disproven. :p

Put another way...if I am right and there is a God, we will both be around for me to say "I told you so". If there is no God, we both go bye bye. Either way, you dont get to say you were right.

Many of us choose to be on the safe side.

[CareBear]

I can respect everyone either believing in God(s) or not believing but the belief that if you pick a certain religion and follow it through all your life so you'll get rewarded at death is something I can't understand and which seems rather self absorbed.

Beliefs are something man made to either give someone peace of mind or to give meaning to someone's life. What and who you are will vanish the instant you die, afterlife or not or how meaningful do you think an eternity of joy would be to a child that died either before birth or at a young age?

[Toefur]

Originally posted by byrdgirl13
I believe, it's not like I'm telling you that you have to. If the accounts in the Bible - besides the world itself - are not enough for you to believe in God, so be it, but they are proof enough for me.

...By the way, what do you suppose the chances are that such a perfectly functioning world as this just randomly formed? One in several hundred trillion? More like one in a mole. (if not less likely)

Hey, it's cool, I was just trying to get some quality debate happening here for a change.

If the chances are one in several hundred trillion that a planet such as this can form, then it makes perfect sense that it did form naturally, given that would make sense when you take into consideration the number of planets there are.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by kabatak
we'll know everything when we die

Actually, we wont know anything, what with being dead and all... :p

[Toefur]

Originally posted by Webdude
After we are dead and you are facing God, and I am watching....you can bet I will say "Is this proof enough?"

In the end though, the God believers win out. If we are right, we get the last laugh. If we are wrong...guess what? You STILL dont get the last laugh. On top of it all, you have proven nothing. So that means God can only be proven, not disproven. :p

Put another way...if I am right and there is a God, we will both be around for me to say "I told you so". If there is no God, we both go bye bye. Either way, you dont get to say you were right.

Many of us choose to be on the safe side.

Pascals Wager, Webdude, has got to be one of the weakest possible arguements in favour of a belief in a 'god', out there.

The problems with following this sort of thinking is that

- God, if one capable of creating such an obviously complex and intricate world such as this, is not stupid. Wouldn't "He" know that you're merely lying in order to get your free ticket into heaven? How can you sincerely believe in a God simply out of convenience?

- How do you know which God to believe in? There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?). If a dozen people of different religions came to you with Pascal's Wager, how could you possibly choose between them? After all, many religions are quite specific that they are the One True Religion, and not any others.

- If there is no God, you've still lost something, and we non-believers can laugh on our deathbeds about you having wasted your life believing, and depending on your level of commitment; (which, would obviously be none if you believe out of convenience like this) would have wasted a good portion of your life performing the various devotional rituals, attending Churches, praying, reading scripture and discussing your deity with His other followers.

- General-God-Belief and being nice simply won't do. Most Gods seem to be quite particular about how they should be worshipped.

- Few, if any, atheists disbelieve in a 'god' out of choice. It's not as if we know the god is really there, but somehow refuse to believe in it (ie; see if you can choose to truly believe that Australia does not exist). Most atheists disbelieve simply because they know of no reasonable evidence to suggest that any sort of god exists. If you want an atheist to believe, show them some good evidence, don't just say it's in her best interests to believe even if there is no god. A person cannot choose to sincerely believe in something, just because it is pragmatic to do so. Sure, you could say all the right prayers and attend church regularly, but that is not the same thing as actually believing, and any God worth his salt would obviously see straight through that.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by CareBear
I can respect everyone either believing in God(s) or not believing but the belief that if you pick a certain religion and follow it through all your life so you'll get rewarded at death is something I can't understand and which seems rather self absorbed.

Beliefs are something man made to either give someone peace of mind or to give meaning to someone's life. What and who you are will vanish the instant you die, afterlife or not or how meaningful do you think an eternity of joy would be to a child that died either before birth or at a young age?

Cheers to that.

notnamed - I look forwards to some enjoyable debates with you.

:D

[Cagez]

I don't believe... Although I find it hard to believe we're all here right now also. How was the universe created? From a "big bang"? How was the big bang created? From matter and such? Where did that matter come from?

We shouldn't be here, its all a dream, yet there are no dreams. wtf... :confused2 :D

[Dean]

All of creation can be explained by scientific evidence [ evolution etc]

[Blank Verse]

I'd like to point out that believing in God or not believing in God is not about trying to prove who's right and who's wrong. You believe what you believe.

[notnamed]

notnamed - I look forwards to some enjoyable debates with you.

I'd love to but I hate debating, and the recent flames I've been through here sucked it out of me. Besides, I forgot half the class anyway :p

[Webdude]

Pascals Wager, Webdude, has got to be one of the weakest possible arguements in favour of a belief in a 'god', out there.

Yeah I do it for the fun of it. Seriously though, the Matrix is real. Believe it.

I grew up Southern Baptist. I was pretty much forced to goto church Sunday Morn, Sunday Night, and Wed Night...and anytime in between when they decided to do something extra. On top of that, I was required to wear a suit and tie....which is why I wont wear them now. On the other hand, that's not why I believe in a God. I believed, for some reason, before I ever knew what Jesus and Church was. All children do. It's a built in thing. All athiests once did, but lost that open mindedness during their growing up.

As for what God? The Bible says he has gone by many names. However, if you want controversy, the Bible also speaks of dinosaurs and aliens. (Leviathon, and the wheel within a wheel in the sky).

For those who worship themselves, that doesnt make you a god. You cant heal anyone miraculously, nor even yourself. What a pitiful god you make...LOL

[Blank Verse]

I'm not sure if that refers to me at all, and it probably doesn't. I never said I worship myself, nor do I claim to be a God. I answer to myself, and I find that very re-assuring.

[conkermaniac]

Well, here are some quotes by famous people on religion, which I found very interesting:

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." Napoleon Bonaparte (leader of the French Revolution and dictator of France)

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping the common people quite."
Napoleon Bonaparte

"We have enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another."
Jonathan Swift (author of Gulliver's Travels)

"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."
Robert Heinlein (American sci-fi author)

[Kaliber]

Originally posted by CareBear
Can you proove without a doubt God doesn't exist though?
And why would it be a 'he' or a 'she' for that matter... Thats not the point, that just like saying unicorns exist and saying I have to prove they don't.

[anhedonia]

"Prove it does exist" / "Prove it doesn't" are the two weakest arguments you could possibly use in a debate...


***

As it was stated earlier, why NOT believe? What have you got to lose? But then, as I think it was toefur said, how do you know what's the right God to believe in? Reminds me of that scene in "The Mummy" where that guy prays to about fifteen different Gods to be saved...

There is a nice urban legend about this topic, which always makes me sort of shiver, it's kinda creepy. Here it is, not to be taken all seriously or anything, just out of interest. I'm just writing it from memory, so don't expect any wonderfully written little story...

*

A young uni student has a debate with his friend about religion. His friend is deeply religious and attempting to show the student why he should believe. The student is, although not exactly convinced, moved by his friend's efforts and preaching. He decides to go for a swim later that evening, so he goes to the pool at night, it's all dark, and he climbs up onto the diving board and notices that his shadow is in the shape of a perfect cross. Frightened, he sits down on the board to think about what his friend has said, and what he assumes are paranoia. While he was sitting there, shaken and deep in thought, a cleaner came into the pool area, switched on all the lights, and as the young student looked down, he was even more shaken than ever to discover the pool had been emptied for maintenance.

*

I'm not saying, "Believe this story and let it change your life!" I just thought it was creepy... And I find urban legends quite interesting to read, so I know dozens and dozens of them, this is one of my favourites for some reason.

[anhedonia]

And another...


Students at a religious institute enrolled in a class on the life of Jesus arrive at their classroom to take the final exam and find a notice informing them that the test will be given in another building on the other side of the campus. As the students rush across campus to the new room, each is accosted by a homeless man asking for help. None of the students stop, anxious to arrive on time for the exam. The instructor is waiting for the students when they finally reach the classroom. He explains to them that the beggar was an actor, planted by him to test their reactions. Because the students demonstrated that they hadn't learned anything by studying the life of Jesus, they all failed the exam.