Should we go to War against Iraq?

[VLC]

As to my opinion, I dislike any nations leader who murders his own people, to secure his power-mad grip, while ignoring the lives of those he's meant to protect.!!!

An unfortunately, you must admit, War is the best way to ensure people like Saddam Hussien stop killing his own people, by getting rid of him an his henchmen, an for all time.

TRUE civilians may die accidently in a war, BUT Saddam allows these people to die anyway, INTENTIONALLY, through malnutrition etc. :(

So far he's killed over 2 million of his own people in over 30 years!
An he's still murdering more as I type this.

Huh - an people complain of a death-toll war might bring. Well what makes you think theyre living a safe an happy life there now????

An as to those people protesting outside government buildings, GET A LIFE - coz it wont make no difference as you're not important enough to be listened to. So go home, sit down, an shut up.

Either do that or replace President Bush or Mr Hussien through democracy or assisination. For that is how Communisim was created. To take power or have it taken from you. But if you dont replace those in power, you can only accept what they dish out.

[jurupa]

I think Stalin did worse than Saddam. Stalin I belive killed 5 million in 5 years, but it was to help Russa over all. Read Animal Farm to understand what he did to his own people. A lot worse than reduce food.

[The Red Guy]

War's just plain evil, it causes the stockmarket and crude oil prices to go towards to wrong end of their charts repectively. At least China as well as the three other nations are more objective with their decision to go against the US.
About Stalin, yes he did do a lot of harm, mainly from the "purges". That was his lowest point. He did some good with the Five Year Plan which pushed USSR into one of the super-powers of the world. But their foundations weren't good enough, thus they lost out to US. This is of course more or less correct, maybe the textbook was lying. :p

[Kaliber]

Hitler started the war? Technically yes

..but the Versailles Treaty which was governed by the France, Britain and the USA was the real cause. Personaly Hitler has means to start the war, first off the Polish Corridor, that was a huge mistake and went totally against the belief of Self Determination, this was mainly due to france and the a$$hole Clemenceau. Also the loss of Alsase Lorrain (sp?) only enraged the germans, not to mention reperations. Most of you are under the daft impression that germany started the first world war (The Great War). This is far from the truth, authough germany was an agressor many other countries were just as bad.

Just had to get that out, Hitler, however was a horrible man, but in my belief he has good cause to start world war two, he wanted to claim east prussia back and rejoin the company into one 'whole' state again.

Please don't bag Hitler.

[Jan]

You seem to have a thing with Taboo's threads VLC :confused2

[Robert]

At first I was all for war. Now, after hearing how stupid our president is, I don't think we need to go to war. Our president is a moron and it's sad that he's the leader of this country.

War isn't the answer when it's coming from Bush.

[lotsofissues]

Originally posted by Kaliber


Just had to get that out, Hitler, however was a horrible man, but in my belief he has good cause to start world war two, he wanted to claim east prussia back and rejoin the company into one 'whole' state again.

Please don't bag Hitler.

Good motives? His tentacles were extended so far how can you doubt he was pursuing world domination?

[Jan]

A deadline has been issued! 10 days or else! :eek:

[jurupa]

Hilter is most probabby the best leader ever. Yes he did killed jews, but a lot of advances came from Germany after WW2. One is rockets, V-2, rember The Battle of Britain? Another one is the jet fighter. And improved military tactics. US learned from the Germans to move as fast as possible in big numbers. Why do you think we have over 200,000 troops in the Middle East in less than 3 months?

[Kaliber]

The only thing that lost WW2 for hitler is when he invaded russia, time and time again have armys tried to defeat russia but the russian killer is a real killer, russia also used its people as cannon fodder.

And yes, Hitler was an excelent leader, he pretty much gave germany its pride back after the distasters ub the 20's.

[Jan]

Perhaps you should bring him back from the dead to fight this war with Iraq which is pending and the topic of the thread :confused2

[Webdude]

Russia is a very cold place, which has accounted for their lack of defeat in the past. Great armies of other regions simply arent used to such combination of that type of weather and terrain.

I can understand other countries views on this war. Saddam is a known terrorist supporter. While it's unlikely that terrorists could get dirty nukes hidden into U.S. cities, it's very possible they could already have them in major cities of closer countries. Saddam has had 12 years to disarm, but that's not the real concern Bush has. His concern is that Saddam has had 12 years to develop weapons to give to terrorists in order to do such a thing.

While N Korea seems a bigger threat, they really arent. Koreans dont use terrorist means. They prefer to build their own stuff, and attempt to publicly flex their muscles and try to openly bully other countries. However, people like Saddam prefer to attack from the behind in sneaky ways.

Imagine a Korean kid and an Iraqi kid on the outside of a fenced in dog. A big and very powerful dog. The Korean kid is making faces and sounds at the dog, occasionally shaking the fence to get a rise out of the dog. However, the Iraqi kid just watches and waits for the dog to goto sleep......then he tries to "hurt" or "kill" the dog when it's most vulnerable. Once things calm down, he'll do it again, and again, and again. So which kid is more dangerous? Iraq? or Korea? Now the dog has gotten out of the fence and he's pissed. Who's he gonna go after?

It's typical of modern society to think the dog was in the wrong....

[keith]

have i ever used caps before?

I AGREE WITH VLC 100%

[jurupa]

Actual what caused Germany to losse WW2 was from bombing Britains air fields to the cities. This let the Royal Air Force to get off the ground and do bomb raids and help set up D-Day. Also with the people I have "disscuss" this with, is if Hitler had not gone after Jews he could of won WW2.

But any ho's we now have people like Bush and Saddam as leaders.

[Todd]

Some of those comments are truly disturbing.. As much as I'd like to rip in to them I'll remind others (and myself) that the topic of this thread is Iraq. Please stick to that topic from here on out or else I'll start to remove posts. Thank you.

[conkermaniac]

Don't you guys realize that Iraq would never have had any nuclear weapons if the United States hadn't handed them over to Saddam? And what about China, which executes more people than any other country - why does the United States turn a blind eye to them? In fact, the United States has probably killed more people than Saddam has in the past 30 years. I truly believe that when Saddam kills people, he has his own reasons. Political agenda may be a reason, but I think that it is more likely that these people weren't the "helpless civilians" that the American media would like you to believe.

And I have never seen concrete proof that Saddam supports terrorism. Anyone? :confused2

[Archbob]

No, cause its purely for economic and political reason that Bush is going to war for.

And they have found no proof that Sadda is Supporting Binladdin. Osama said himself a month ago or so that he has no dealings with Saddam. Those two don't really like each other.

[jurupa]

How can it be economicly correct for Bush to attack Iraq? Yes there is oild there, but isn't there a Middle East group that controls the oil in the Middle East? I believe the more popluar the war the better the economics of the country.

[Webdude]

Let's say the war IS for oil and/or economics. There's a good reason for the war. WE went over there and built THEIR oil refineries for them. OUR people put it all together. Now THEY use (Saddam and all other Arabs) oil as a weapon to hold America and other countries as economic hostages. Funny thing is, it's mostly Amricans that work in those refineries. It is American oil companies that run them. The middle easterners sit back and charge us $$ for every barrel we pump.

Personally I think another way to control things, to put the Middle East in a real financial bind, and to convince oil companies to look elsewhere for oil....would be to add a 20% tax on all oil exports from the Middle East, and drop oil taxes on exports from other countries by 10%.

It wouldnt be long till the middle east couldnt afford to fund terrorists. And they would be begging our business back so much that they would drastically drop their "per barrel" charges. It would be nice to see $0.50/gallon prices again :D

[shizzle]

Where else would we go for oil? Freakin treehuggers wont let us use alaska.

[Webdude]

Originally posted by shizzle
Where else would we go for oil? Freakin treehuggers wont let us use alaska.

Yeah thats the sad thing, and they are crying as much as the rest of us about the rise in gas prices. Maybe this will lighten them up a bit though.

[CareBear]

Originally posted by shizzle
Where else would we go for oil? Freakin treehuggers wont let us use alaska. There isn't that much of it there either and somehow I doubt the US would use up its own reserves.. if only for the fact that if they hold on to them they can be the last nation on earth to still have a drop of oil left when everything else runs out.

Webdude-since you claim that everyone in the Middle East sponsers terrorism and that it's done with "oil dollars" but since it's mostly American companies exploiting the oil making it possible to be sold you're funding terrorism against your own country? Doesn't make much sense does it?

[VLC]

Originally posted by keith
have i ever used caps before?
I AGREE WITH VLC 100%

Why thanks, but unlike what your username byline says, i am actully a 'liberal'.
You see, keith, it's the leftwingers that are afraid of war, not liberals. We liberals want War because the Iraqi people dont have liberty, an all people should have liberty, for that is what liberalism is based on. True liberals like me believe that all people, not the few, should have liberty, only those who persecute the working classes say otherwise.

Fear not for the civilians, as people were already dieing there, BEFORE the war started , through torture an mass killings - is that ok with everybody?

An some people stupidly think he was gonna step down coz some old UN guy says so?
Get real - Saddam cares for nothing but retaining power, an he dont care how many of his OWN people die to achieve this.

In fact, if you were caught reading all this in his country, you be in prison for life - without trial, plus maybe your family, an if you wrote this - you'd be DEAD.

Remember evil persits when good men do nothing, an the world has done NOTHING about him for decades!

Of course, if anyone here knows of a better way to free the oppressed people of Iraq, then lets here it below.:)

On a final note, I care not about Iraqs' oil or chemical weapons etc, I only care for it's working-classes, who live a life of fear an death, every day they live with Mr Hussien in power.

I hope he dies a slow painful death,
like the pregant women who were punched in the stomach till loosing their babies, because their husbands spoke out.
Like the 6000 kurds who choked to death on poison gas.
Or like the men who had their fingernails extracted for insulting their UNELECTED leader.!!!

I ask you, is that a life worth living, or a life worth fighting for?

[byrdgirl13]

Originally posted by VLC
Why thanks, but unlike what your username byline says, i am actully a 'liberal'.
You see, keith, it's the leftwingers that are afraid of war, not liberals.

Where are you from? :confused2 left wing = Democrat = liberal, right wing = Republican = conservative.

And by the way, I'm disgusted by some posters' utter disregard for the Arctic REFUGE. It's already a protected area with wildlife that are endangered and would be very threatened by oil drilling. We have a responsibility to the earth we take from, to not take everything & to fix what we've messed up. Obviously, silly people who think the US actually gets all its oil from the Middle East don't give a **** if the world we're soaking up all the resources from goes dry. I know that's a horribly generalized statement that may make someone snap back, but that's what I see.

One more thing to get y'all yelling at me: I agree with conker in that I have yet to see any evidence of a link between Hussein and al Qaida/terrorists. This is the wrong war at the wrong time, and when so many people agree on that (speaking against war is not usually a popular thing, you know - governments usually can better convince their people that the war is necessary and just, etc.), it's time for the leaders to listen. Count on it, Bush will not get my vote in 2004.

[Jan]

Originally posted by byrdgirl13
Where are you from? :confused2 left wing = Democrat = liberal, right wing = Republican = conservative.
Judging by the URL in his sig, I would say UK ;)

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by byrdgirl13
Where are you from? :confused2 left wing = Democrat = liberal, right wing = Republican = conservative.


Incorrect. Left and right wing refer to economic policies - socialists are on the left, capitalists are on the right. Political ideas must be measured on a different scale. See www.politicalcompass.org

[Webdude]

Originally posted by CareBear
Webdude-since you claim that everyone in the Middle East sponsers terrorism and that it's done with "oil dollars" but since it's mostly American companies exploiting the oil making it possible to be sold you're funding terrorism against your own country? Doesn't make much sense does it?

You see, you are one of those that reads things, changes it all around, and start stating falsities. Learn to get your facts straight and dont put words in my mouth, and you wont have to keep taking your foot out of your mouth. I never once said everyone in the middle east sponsors terrorism. Others have said that, but I have not. If all the conversations are too much for you and you can no longer remember who said what, and have to grouping statements from several people under one person, it's best that you keep yourself out of the conversation.

Now onto the other point I wanted to make...those who claim Saddam got all his weapons from the U.S. He got very few, and I doubt many, if any, were weapons of mass destruction. Now ask yourself where all those weapons from the fallen U.S.S.R went to. Now ask yourself why is Russia so against the war with Iraq..

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by Webdude


Now onto the other point I wanted to make...those who claim Saddam got all his weapons from the U.S. He got very few, and I doubt many, if any, were weapons of mass destruction. Now ask yourself where all those weapons from the fallen U.S.S.R went to. Now ask yourself why is Russia so against the war with Iraq..

Proof? I've seen far more proof that the US handed over weapons of mass destruction, so if you are unable to offer any reliable evidence, your argument is invalid.

[Webdude]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Proof? I've seen far more proof that the US handed over weapons of mass destruction, so if you are unable to offer any reliable evidence, your argument is invalid.

Your reply has nothing to do with my post. I didnt say I had proof, and I didnt deny it. The closest I came to saying we didnt give him any was that I doubted there were many. That is a personal opinion and no proof is needed to back it. I will post it again so you can re-read it. The word "proof" isnt in my post, so I dont know where you got that from.


He got very few, and I doubt many, if any, were weapons of mass destruction. Now ask yourself where all those weapons from the fallen U.S.S.R went to.

[Archbob]

Like every other country, we're not really in this for Security or humanitarian reasons, we're in this because it benefits the current administration, hey everyone likes a winner and since we're fighting a war thats really hard to lose...

[is0lized]

If you have to post about war, take it here

http://www.iraqvsusa.com - Keep it off these forums :rolleyes:

[Webdude]

Better yet

http://www.politicaltoons.com/ :D

[n7of9]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Proof? I've seen far more proof that the US handed over weapons of mass destruction, so if you are unable to offer any reliable evidence, your argument is invalid.

it was confirmed this morning that the missiles the iraqi troops fired into the kuwaiti desert hoping to hit allied troops came from CHINA

[guitarnerd]

if you want to read my opinions on war just go here (http://www.junebughunter.net) orhere (http://xanga.com/junebughunter) otherwise I will keep quiet about how I really feel.

I would like to say that for every person who dies for good or bad...I am sorry that it has to be like that...I do believe Bush is right and I support him 200%

BTW Stocks have been up in case you haven't noticed surprising

[VLC]

Originally posted by is0lized
If you have to post about war, take it here http://www.iraqvsusa.com - Keep it off these forums :rolleyes:
Why not here - it does say here 'general discussion', an members here are free to speak, unless they're sitting at a PC in Iraq:(

Ive read all the posts before this, an can clear up a few matters.

Here's my points- but first ive got some interesting info i read in the 'financial times newspaper for all here to know....

1- the reason why france an germany are so against the war is because theyre the 2 biggest exporters to iraq. Meaning Iraq probably owes them for unpaid goods, making them their debtor.

2- russia's % market share on world arms sales is biggest at 32%, followed by USA at 30%, then france are next a 9% an UK at 8%, germany at 5%, etc etc. [I fogot China's figure.]

3- are school kids really bunking off when they protest during school hours, but why not do it on the weekends i wonder, or after school closes?

4- was their more booing or cheers when michael moore did his anti war speech at the Oscars, i couldnt tell either way?

5- i'm not political, just fed up when governments murdered the people they're meant to protect, an while the world ignores their plight. I call myself a patriot to the working-class, nothing more.

6- who thinks if USA or UN killed saddam in 1968, when he STOLE power in a bloody coo, we probably wouldnt be at war now?

to close, my thoughts are with the safety of the soldiers, who are fighting for the freedom of others,
although I BLAME THE UN for not removing tyrants like Hussien, just appeasing them, while many suffer in silence.

[byrdgirl13]

Originally posted by VLC
3- are school kids really bunking off when they protest in school hours, or why not do it on the weekends i wonder, of after school closes?
The idea is "if you're going to walk out on us, we're going to walk out on you."


was their more booing or cheers when michael moore did his anti war speech at the Oscars?

Was the Oscars the proper place for such a speech, esp considering he called the other filmmakers up with him (I'm guessing without forewarning them)?

[Marphy]

No War!!!!!!!!!!




Please!There are too many peaple killed by the war!



No War!!!!!!!!!! No War!!!!!!!!!!


what are you thinking now after you see this pic?

http://bbs.china.com/images/2003-03-27/1048726860114367241178071.jpg

[Marphy]

he lost his mother..............

[guitarnerd]

Originally posted by Marphy
No War!!!!!!!!!!




Please!There are too many peaple killed by the war!



No War!!!!!!!!!! No War!!!!!!!!!!


what are you thinking now after you see this pic?

http://bbs.china.com/images/2003-03-27/1048726860114367241178071.jpg

Chances are the picture was taken before the war...I think of the war like this...there may be a spike in deaths but in the long run we are going to be preventing deaths by putting Iraq back together.

Also where do you people get the idea we are purposely killing innocent people. We are trying to kill bad people so they stop killing innocent people

[Marphy]

here now!
March 24th,a iraq girl were hurt by US air attack

[Marphy]

I do hate war!

[Marphy]

On March24th,a Baghdad woman and her child who were injured in American and British air attack were cured in a hospital.


http://news.china.com/zh_cn/focus/kxylk/kxylkpic/11010326/20030325/images/118450.jpg

[Toefur]

Originally posted by guitarnerd
We are trying to kill bad people so they stop killing innocent people

We are trying to kill bad people? Heh heh. You really are a naive one.

Even moreso when we take note of the fact that the reason you think people are against war is because, "they're too wimpy to fight".

Bright lad.

[guitarnerd]

How much do you think your opinion matters to me or anyone? You don't live in the states and you "have a cock ring". You have no clue

[Toefur]

My opinion on what, little boy?

Come on, do you actually have anything you can say and back up, or AT LEAST something that is relevant to the matter at hand?

It's good to see that my current user title has such an adverse affect on how this discussion is handled, congratulations on your outstanding display of wit and intellect.

[keith]

peace!!!!!!!!!!




please! there are too many peaple killed by saddam hussein!



peace!!!!!!!!!! peace!!!!!!!!!!


what are you thinking now after you see this pic?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_032603/content/eib_extra.guest.html

[guitarnerd]

lol, you crack me up. What a jack --- you are. You know nothing adn I am not gonna waste my time on this forum drama, I stopped posting here because you are all stuck in your as I like to call "un-educated" opinions no point in trying to tell you any different

[keith]

who, me?

[Toefur]

Originally posted by guitarnerd
lol, you crack me up. What a jack --- you are. You know nothing adn I am not gonna waste my time on this forum drama, I stopped posting here because you are all stuck in your as I like to call "un-educated" opinions no point in trying to tell you any different

You may like to call us all 'un-educated' dear child, but it's really rich coming from you.


Originally posted by guitarnerd on his site

Here you have presented to us the epitome of uneducated.

Things I have to say to protestors:

If you want to defend Iraq go there...otherwise shut your mouth

Be thankful I am a good christian boy

The people in Iraq who are surrendering are more patriotic than you

I am sorry you are used to a wussy president

You defend the murderers who kill, I defend my family

We aren't killing innocent people, we are saving them from those murderers

If you want peace...there are a million and one better ways to have peace

The wimpiest soldier in the army is a better man than the best man protestor

You are telling people who save your life they are wrong? What a screwed up opinion you have

It isn't about oil...most of our oil comes from other places you stupid...well I wont go there

The President is keeping the peace not causing war.

Move to Iraq fgt_bear

Do you have any clue some of the things Saddahm has done?

Protestors are just wimps that are two scared to go to war, so they they say they are against it just because they are scared

God will give you what you deserve

THAT, my friend, is what one would call uneducated.

[keith]

i call it utter common sense.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by keith
peace!!!!!!!!!!




please! there are too many peaple killed by saddam hussein!



peace!!!!!!!!!! peace!!!!!!!!!!


what are you thinking now after you see this pic?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_032603/content/eib_extra.guest.html

Kiddy fiddler. :p

Sorry... couldn't resist.

[keith]

that post was a parody of another. you did notice that, didn't you?

[Toefur]

Originally posted by keith
i call it utter common sense.

To me it shows an absolute lack of understanding, and desire to see through clouds of ignorance, of why people of differing opinions HAVE their different opinions in the first place.

Nobody I know that is against war is against war because 'they're too scared to go and fight'.

That's complete nonsense, and you know it is.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by keith
that post was a parody of another. you did notice that, didn't you?

It obviously was... but how could one resist the urge to make such claims to such a picture?

[keith]

hey, i'm against war as well. but i'm also pro-peace, and this war is completely justified and supported by the u.n. via resolution 1441, whether they like it or not.

[guitarnerd]

Originally posted by Peo
I understand that this is a very heated topic and people have strong feelings about the war, but...

If you attack persons instead of their views (for instance saying that "you are stupid"), your post will get deleted. All of your post will be deleted, not just the abusive parts. Let's try to argue without attacking eachother, otherwise I'll close this thread. If you have received warnings, it might be a wise decision to stay out of this discussion.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by guitarnerd
You are dumb toefur...

Again I applaud you, a very well thought out opening statement there.


Originally posted by guitarnerd

you have never dealt with war...you don't have relatives and immidiate family in the war.


Thank you for filling me in about information about my relatives and family, I'm glad you know so much more than me. It's reassuring to know I can rely on you when trouble arises.

As for me never having dealt with war, well... neither have you, little boy.


Originally posted by guitarnerd

War is what keeps the peace. I am not going to argue with you cause I am not trying to change your opinions but to state mine here are some things I believe

The problem with that is that you state things that have no basis or standing whatsoever, and you come accross as being rather daft.


Originally posted by guitarnerd

you are uneducated in this section
you say what you say because it has no personal value to you, basically when you say you are anti war it is like someone shooting me and I shoot them back and you walk across the street and say to me...what the hell did you shoot him for an criticize me for it.

Actually, it's nothing at all like that.

Especially in the case of the current 'war', because as I'm sure Mr. Educated Smarty Pants Guitarnerd is aware; the country of Iraq isn't guilty of 'shooting' America, or for that fact, guilty of any hostile actions or intentions towards America.

Therfor, your analogy is not only weak and misguided, but also completely incorrect.


Originally posted by guitarnerd

You know nothing you stupid ignorant fool

As with your opening statement, I would like to again send to you my congratulations on your abilities at making weak ad hominem claims.

Since I let you off so easy the first time, I think this time I will demand that you, in all your good christian boy educated glory, explain to me how it is you come to the conclusion that I know nothing, and then I want you to carry onwards and explain to me how calling me a 'stupid ignorant fool' when you clearly have no basis for these claims, is any more intelligent than what a 5 year old would dish out.

[CareBear]

you say what you say because it has no personal value to you, basically when you say you are anti war it is like someone shooting me and I shoot them back and you walk across the street and say to me...what the hell did you shoot him for an criticize me for it. It's actually more of a; "I think someone down my street is up to no good.. in fact, I know he's up to no good!". But when you go to the police and ask them to do something about him they turn you down. You then decide to put together some proof along with fabricated "proof" but are still turned down. They're willing to come over and talk to the guy and check his house for anything suspicious but that's not good enough for you. You don't care if they tell you they can't find anything suspicious right away but that they'll keep investigating.
So eventually you get a gun, walk up to the guy and shoot him yourself and you feel justified because you've removed a "great threat".

[Webdude]

The proof has already been given about Saddam. He shot scud missiles at us (ones he claimed he didnt have). We found 3,000 chemical suits in a chemical factory he claimed he didnt have.

The Russians have also proven they provide weapons to Iraq by way of giving them gps jammers (typical of russian engineering, they didnt work). So we gave Saddam a few weapons way back when....but the Russians have always, and continue to provide him weapons even today.

As for the war being to stop Saddam in his harming his own people, that has simply become a secondary agenda. After we focused on Iraq, America's eyes were opened to the inhumane crimes against the civilians. Things we didnt know of before. Of course Saddam doesnt go around raping and killing...his guards do. I have a few clients in that region, and the stories they tell me are revolting. Do you think any leadership or upper military has the right to walk out onto the street, and tell his armed guard which woman he wants that night, the husband shot if he resists, and the woman forced to do that guy's will? Is this what you are saying we shouldnt try to change?

Perhaps the protestors have taken their own rights for granted, and forget that in places like Iraq, people dont have that kind of freedom. Or perhaps they simply dont care if Iraqi's have freedom or not. Saddam is a ruthless dictator that rules with an iron fist. He is not as bad as Hitler, nowhere near that, but if we do nothing he can continue down that path. We dont want another WWII where we were only able to do something when it was almost too late. We dont want another attack like the trade center. If we sat back and did nothing, or did everything diplomatically (which hasnt worked during the past 12 years), then as soon as Saddam IS able to attack, and does.....

all these protestors would be the first ones to say
"HOW COME YOU DIDNT STOP THIS WHEN YOU COULD HAVE???

We are stopping it now......... Many of these people say the trade center disaster could have been averted, it's unfortunate most of those same people would have protested heavily against methods which would have been required to prevent it.

[CareBear]

Originally posted by Webdude
The proof has already been given about Saddam. He shot scud missiles at us (ones he claimed he didnt have). We found 3,000 chemical suits in a chemical factory he claimed he didnt have.Unless it happened in the last few days the missiles fired weren't scuds.. that's a media introduced "fact".
No official and definite word on the chemical factory as far as I know either.

[Webdude]

Sorry, they werent fired on us, but rather, Kuwait last week. Two of them.

[guitarnerd]

The fact is that when Saddam lost this war the first time he was supposed to disarm and be of no threat to the united states. Wether it is fair or not it was a contract he HAD TO agree to if he wanted to keep his country. He did not follow ANY of the rules and he has bombs and missiles and is a risk to his country and us.

Him breaking his contract justifies the war wether it seems fair or not, that was the agreement and he has not followed it to any extent. THIS WAR IS JUSTIFIED

And no offense people but I put more trust in the leaders of this country who are educated and experienced beyond what probably any of us will be at. They know more than we do and are smarter than any of us.

[CareBear]

Then why was there a need to fabricate "evidence"? :confused:

[byrdgirl13]

Oh dear Lord the things that happen for lack of GC to keep the fights going. Is that what you need? To duke it out with people who disagree, even if you can't see them? Please, guys, keep it civilized. We're getting the almost-paranoid accusations of stupidity back, along with a few other verbal darts. Why bother? We know we disagree, why 'yell' thoughts back and forth that will only make each other mad? Talking a little more softly would do a lot to calm tempers, you know. Then maybe we could listen to & understand each other rather than....oh geez, I'm gone how long? I come back to this and now I'm preaching. *points* hedunnit! *sprints from the room*

[VLC]

Originally posted by Marphy here now! March 24th,a iraq girl were hurt by US air attack
PROVE the Americans did that!
PROVE the Iraqi's didn't FAKE the picture
PROVE the injured weren't hurt by Iraqi fire or a road accident.

YOU CAN'T - coz YOU weren't there!!!

Also, Marphy, Location: China

YOUR country murdered 6,000 students in Tiannamin Square 10 yrs ago.!!!

YOUR country invaded an murdered civilians in Tibet for decades!

Get the hell out of that peaceful country - you dont belong there, an its people didnt ask your country to invade.
But the Kurds an Shia's did ask for help. Remember that...

Some day, i pray, the working-classes will overthrow an kill the government of China, so they stop Killing an torturing its citizens.

Long live the working-classes an death to the oppressors of their freedom an liberty.

VLC - patriot to the working-classes, signing off....

ps- sorry if i sound heavy, but i wont stand for people blaming others while their own nation violates human rights.
I find it quite disgusting, an i wont let anyone get away with brushing over it.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by Webdude
The proof has already been given about Saddam. He shot scud missiles at us (ones he claimed he didnt have). We found 3,000 chemical suits in a chemical factory he claimed he didnt have.

As CareBear said about the missiles, they weren't Scuds.

As for the suits, firstl they were found in a hospital, not a chemical factory, and secondly we have no proof of them; unless you can point me to some news sources. But everyone I have asked around with, and all the news sources I have checked, haven't been able to supply pictures of these alleged 3000-6000 suits, that's not to say they don't exist, but a few other things to ponder...

The American soldiers go into battle with gas masks and other related protection, does that mean they are about to start gassing people in Iraq?

Whose not to say they had the masks to protect themselves from the US? They know they have more of it than anyone. Considering the fevered pitch Saddam is always trying to work them into it might be that they have those masks to remind them to fear US.

3000 gas masks and antidote for nerve gas? OH MY ----ING GOD!!!!

Who cares if they have any or not--this is literally meaningless if they do have them. The US has them, Kuwait has them, etc. Not all of the nations that have them also have chemical weapons. Providing a potential means to defend against them is a legitimate, legal, and innocuous action.

[Toefur]

Originally posted by guitarnerd
The fact is that when Saddam lost this war the first time he was supposed to disarm and be of no threat to the united states. Wether it is fair or not it was a contract he HAD TO agree to if he wanted to keep his country. He did not follow ANY of the rules and he has bombs and missiles and is a risk to his country and us.


Just so you know, Hussein is allowed to have bombs and missiles. Just not allowed to have certain ones.

As for claiming he didn't follow ANY of the rules, the majority of the missiles that went about 8 miles or so longer than permitted were destroyed, and the only reason the rest weren't destroyed was because of the US invasion.

Another point might be to consider is that no one, not even the US administration, has given any evidence to suggest that Iraq was a threat to the US, or any other country.

[Marphy]

Originally posted by VLC
PROVE the Americans did that!
PROVE the Iraqi's didn't FAKE the picture
PROVE the injured weren't hurt by Iraqi fire or a road accident.

YOU CAN'T - coz YOU weren't there!!!

Also, Marphy, Location: China

YOUR country murdered 6,000 students in Tiannamin Square 10 yrs ago.!!!

YOUR country invaded an murdered civilians in Tibet for decades!

Get the hell out of that peaceful country - you dont belong there, an its people didnt ask your country to invade.
But the Kurds an Shia's did ask for help. Remember that...

Some day, i pray, the working-classes will overthrow an kill the government of China, so they stop Killing an torturing its citizens.

Long live the working-classes an death to the oppressors of their freedom an liberty.

VLC - patriot to the working-classes, signing off....

ps- sorry if i sound heavy, but i wont stand for people blaming others while their own nation violates human rights.
I find it quite disgusting, an i wont let anyone get away with brushing over it.


VLC:
1st:My English is poor. I'm a programmer.so i'm sorry if i had made any mistake.

2nd:Where are you come from please?Are you come from China?
do you know the thing as well as me that about Tian'anmen Square 10 yrs ago?
My uncle was a police in beijing 12 yrs ago.he know all about that.
Many report in other contury was not the trueth.
all the Police and PLA are being order that they cann't kill any of the civilians,,,
even though they got hit by them, they still cann't take revenge..

"murdered 6,000 students "??????????
hey,i don't know how or what to say.but ,6,000 students? do you know how many students there are in Beijing University? do you know how many students in Tringhua Uni.?do you know how many students in other uni. in Beijing?
But my uncle tell me that about 10(or 5? or even 50? sorry i forgot it) PLA soldiers were killed by burning at that time.
so,

at last,i have to say:If you do not know the trueth,do not say anything please! Thanx!
3rd: i have to say again,my English is poor,but i hope you could understand what i said.Thank you.

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by VLC


YOUR country murdered 6,000 students in Tiannamin Square 10 yrs ago.!!!

6,000? Where the heck do you get your information? I would doubt that even 600 were killed. But then again, the Boston Incident is referred to as "The Boston Massacre" in American History textbooks, even though only a few people died (and furthermore, the colonists struck first!). The fact is that the student protesters were stupid. They started attacking the tanks that were merely rolling in to keep the situation under control. And did you know that 20 student protesters pulled a guy's arms and limbs out, while poking out his eyes? Totally unjustifiable. If they had remained peaceful, the Chinese government would have let them be.



Some day, i pray, the working-classes will overthrow an kill the government of China, so they stop Killing an torturing its citizens.

Long live the working-classes an death to the oppressors of their freedom an liberty.

I hate to say this, but your ignorance in world affairs really shows. The Chinese Communist Party would not be in power today if the working classes did not support them. China does NOT commit that many human rights abuses. Do they execute more people than any other country? Yes, and in fact, if they didn't do this, I'd sure be damn scared to live here. It would become another Indonesia or Philippines.

America commits more human rights abuses than any other country, and if you have ever studied REAL American History, you would know that. Many Americans talk about Tiananmen when they have never heard of Kent State or the Washington D.C. massacre during the Great Depression! And I would like to see you justify America's assassination or removal of dozens of world leaders (many of them democratically elected). I think the word "terrorism" would truly apply in this situation.

At least China doesn't try to hide the fact that they are a Communist dictatorship who commits human rights abuses. The US government hides behind lies and the false promise of "democracy" to cover up the crimes against humanity. And yet they dare criticize other countries! It's outrageous...

[Jan]

Let's just keep this thread on the current situation or I will close it.