Yet another idiot wanting help to choose a FWH...

[dabman]

Hello people. Before I start, I'd better say - yes, I *have* tried the Advanced and Power Searches...

What I'm looking for is a site to host a few smallish freeware programs I've written (all my own stuff, nothing over a meg). This is really the bare bones:

* 10 megs of space
* FTP upload - I *hate* those browser upload things
* must allow zipfiles
* I can live with a banner ad - but not popups
* reasonably short URL
* not likely to collapse any time soon...

This isn't just going to be a file warehouse - there'll be plenty of HTML as well - and the files themselves won't be hotlinked to from outside the site.

I've just spent several hours going around some of the main free hosts, and I have to say their T&Cs are mostly appallingly badly written - it's very hard to tell what is and isn't allowed.

I've been in this situation before - I used to be with Freedom2Surf, who were good, but then they suddenly decided that zipfiles were banned (without telling anyone). I FTP'd in one day to find all my zip archives were gone... Fortunecity allow files, I know, but they're so sloooow.

I just know someone'll say "get a paid host, then" - but I don't *want* one of those - that's why I'm in this forum! Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[top]

Hello!

Try Virtualave.net. They have been very reliable but I don't know if they allow zip files. It's fast but you'll have to change the pop-ups to banners from your controls at Virtualave (pop-ups are default). Subdomain you.virtualave.net.

[Susan_Logan]

9ug.com

[HumanClay]

Doesn't Crosswinds allow such content (as long as you own the stuff or have permission to use it). They have a short URL too don't they? /~you ??? They are fairly reliable also as far as from what people have posted here.

[Gcites]

http://www.sphosting.com allows it doesnt it?

[Tater]

Crosswidns doesn't fit 3 of his criteria.

Their FTP doesn't work except from 3:25am to 3:29am.

They have popup ads.

They are likely to collapse soon unless they get $1,000,000 in contributions. Drop a million for Chuckie's kids...LOL

Peace

[Sphosting.com]

we can take you and your zip files, although we do not offer ftp access.

Stuart Dyer
Sphosting.com

[Ron Seigel]

He said in his post:


* FTP upload - I *hate* those browser upload things

Why would you even open your mouth when it's OBVIOUS that you can't possibly supply him with what he wants? Are you that desperate for members that you have to try to ram your service down everyone's throat that asks for a FWP here?

[Ron Seigel]

Nobody has EVER been able to explain this to me....maybe you can (but somehow I doubt it).

WHY is it 'wrong' for a company to make a profit on the Internet?

That's the ONLY question I have. Let's see if you're smart enough to come up with a non-moronic answer!

[Tater]

Originally posted by cyberryan

Originally posted by Tater
Their FTP doesn't work except from 3:25am to 3:29am.

Actually, their FTP has improved since the implementation of pop-up ads; it now works on almost every other try and is MUCH faster than it was before the ads, proving once again that Crosswinds DID put the ads there for its members.


They are likely to collapse soon unless they get $1,000,000 in contributions.
Peace
It's so sad that you don't have faith in a non-profit organization that was originally out to "right the wrongs of the internet." Yes, Crosswinds is the "nice guys" of the internet, but as we all know, in reality, it's the nice guys who end up going to the wall. Well, Crosswinds isn't going to the wall anytime soon, at least not without putting up a good fight! I believe that Crosswinds will be around as long as the internet!
Oh yeah, DABMAN: if your site uses frames or if you use a forwarding service which cloaks the URL, then your visitors won't see the Crosswinds pop-up ad. However, I don't know if this will change, but at least it's this way at the time I'm writing this.

[Edited by cyberryan on 11-14-2000 at 09:01 PM]

Yes, I have no faith in people who expect to survive on handouts. The folks at Crosswinds are "nice guys" but right now I wouldn't call them stable. When you are having to beg for money you are obviously in very bad financial shape.

As for as being out to "right the wrongs of the internet". I see in your last sentence that you are certainly "righting a wrong" by telling how to avoid the Crosswinds banner ad and depriving Crosswinds out of some more money.

[Ron Seigel]

Well, why don't free webspace providers just use HONEST accounting by just charging their members up front instead of taking unfair advantage of someone else's site and its visitors?

How are they dishonest? They are telling you UP FRONT that they are putting banners on your site. Don't even bother talking about Xoom and the other FWPs that suddenly changed from ad-free (ummm....like Crosswinds has). They all have a clause in their TOS that states that they can change anything at any given time. That gives them the right to do whatever they damn well please. Remember, THEY OWN THE SERVERS, NOT YOU. 'Charging their members up front'??? Wouldn't that make them a PAID HOST?


What if the site owner isn't trying to make money off the site, what if he just does it because he enjoys to do it or he makes the site to help people? Then the FWP would be taking unfair advantage of it;

Why is it the FWP's concern what the site owner is doing? Why should they care? You're making even less sense now than you were at the beginning. The FWP PAYS for the hardware, the bandwidth, the support staff, etc, etc, etc. Why on earth should they turn around and GIVE you all that with nothing in return? Only a complete MORON would do that (and YES I *AM* saying that Crosswinds was STUPID for offering that in the first place. I don't admire stupidity.)


Well, my site DOES NOT exist for the purpose of making money and it NEVER WILL! Spaceports will not get my site because it is NOT A SELLOUT!

Why should Spaceports care what your site exists for? You're still not making any sense.


Steve, if you're reading this, I mean no offense to you; let the suckers, I mean e-money seekers, who get about 5% of the profits you make off the banners keep your site going.

Steve is easily the smartest FWP owner I know. I'm certainly not trying to put words in his mouth but I guarantee you that he doesn't want anything to do with leeches like you. He's better off without you and those like you and he's smart enough to know it.

A little advice: Don't ever waste your time trying to start a business. You'll just end up bankrupt within the first month since you won't be able to live with yourself if you're actually making any money.

Another question: Do you make any income? If you do how can you live with your employer making enough money to pay you? Wait! Is that different? It's ok for you to make money but it's not ok for anyone else to? Sounds like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

The prosecution rests you honor.....

[Technics]

Why do all threads that nimrod posts in turn into wars?. I've not seen one this year that hasnt.....On this board that is.

[Tater]

Originally posted by cyberryan

Geez, sorry, I removed that sentence, you happy now!!!? Also, if you don't have faith in Crosswinds and like Ron, think I've been brainwashed, you (and Ron, the original freewebspace.net forum --- and pessimist) should take a look at CW's "updates" page at http://home.crosswinds.net/updates/

If you don't believe them, then you're the ones that are brainwashed, not ME! Scott does not sound like the type of person who would lie to protect his business (or non-profit organization).

By the way, I wish Lenny could see this thread right now, but he hasn't posted here since CW's supposed "server upgrades," which seem to be going fine now - as I have said above, CW's FTP has improved a lot since the pop-ups were implemented. However, I still use CW's browser upload because my site uses frames, doesn't display the pop-up, and I can click on CW's sponsors on the homepage utilities. Also, according to Crosswinds, they get $0.01 for each banner impression and (the advertisers are probably NUTS for paying this rate, but who cares) CW receives anywhere from $0.25 to $1.50 per banner click. Also according to CW, if each of their million members clicked on only TWO banner ads a MONTH, CW would have $902,000 for that month.

[Edited by cyberryan on 11-15-2000 at 12:56 PM] [/B]

Not happy, just confused. On one hand you defend Crosswinds, and on the other you point out ways to defeat their ad banner system. Just sounds hypocritical to me.

Damn, Crosswinds is beginning to sound like a cult, brainwashing indeed! Very weird...

And my appologies to dabman. This thread has deterioted from the question you originally asked.

[dabman]

Thanks for the responses (at least from those of you who answered my question... :) )

Maybe it might help if I clarified my requirements a bit:

FTP is 100% vital. I will not even *consider* a provider without it. Full stop.
No pop-ups is 99.99% vital. I would accept them *only* if the provider was literally the best in the world.
10 megs space - I reckon I'll actually need around 4-5 megs, but I don't want to be squashed in there.
The shortish URL is important because most redirection services use popups - which I'm trying to avoid!
And the remark about "not likely to collapse any time soon" was because I've already had the intensely irritating experience of moving a whole site, and don't want to have to do it again!

Anyhow, of the various suggestions people have made:

1) Crosswinds - nope. Firstly, it has popups, after *promising* not to (if it had just said "we'll try not to" I wouldn't mind as much, but breaking an actual *promise* just ain't on). Secondly, there's this cumbersome "approval" process you have to go through to get anything other than a very few file types up. Too fiddly.

2) Virtualave - nope. It's aimed at businesses - my site is entirely non-commercial, and their TOS states: "This service is provided for BUSINESSES only. No personal home pages are allowed". Also, from their TOS: "Virtual Avenue also reserves the right to run a text link along with each banner *and additional pop-ups* [my emphasis]."

3) Gcites - nope. They don't allow zipfiles - though I had to delve into their support forums to find this out, as (yet again) they can't be bothered to provide a decent FAQ.

4) Sphosting - nope. No FTP access. Kudos for them for actually allowing zipfiles, though - a lot of FWPs seem to think that *all* zipfiles are dodgy. And another plus point for not trying to nick your copyright, like some I could mention... Sorry, Sphosting, though - I *must* have FTP, and I'm not prepared to compromise on that.

One other point, FWPs - if you're going to provide a service people will be willing to rely on, do you think you could at least spend five minutes running a spellchecker over your signup pages...?

So, I'm back where I started. So, here's an open invitation. If there's anyone out there with the authority to say that they can meet my criteria (with some sort of proof!), I guarantee they'll get my full attention. If only Sphosting had FTP...

For now, it's back to bloody Fortunecity... :(

[Chicken]

Dabman, email me.

[LawTown Junky]

spaceports

[Coolin]

Try http://www.netcabins.com. It has FTP, 12 megs of space that can be upgraded, and I don't think it's going to die anytime soon. As for zipfiles, I think they allow them, but even if they don't, I bet NC_TOM is nice enough to allow them just for you.

[NC_TOM]

Thanks for the recommendation. :)

Zip files are OK as long as they weigh under 5 megs. If you are offering a software download which was programmed by you, and it is more than 5 megs, talk to me and I'll let you upload it.

[esockiton]

This original post echoes requirements precisely of that which I am looking for (FTP, no pop-ups). While design is only a hobby, I have around 10 websites I need to put on different freehosts to get a "feel for the market". However I do know that in the long-term, small demands for webspace (e.g less than 5-10 megs) will always be met in abundance by hosting services keen to attract the experimental designers and non-professionals. Noting the speculation in dotcoms, trademark laws and the value of goodwill in the financial accounts make millions for founders, so it is difficult to see why one should ever have to pay for start-up webspace. Of course because the barriers to entry to running a website are small compared to a traditional business, I suspect that a lot of the future growth of e-commerce is going to still arrive from the small fry experimenting with commercial appearances while in fact there is little or no real financial investment. This is the whole point surely of freewebspace, if a site makes it big (even if just the domain name is sold as a charming icon to the fashionable) then surely the success of the individual website reflects on the host provider in general? The trouble with the old big guns such as geocities etc are not only the technical complaints but that they started early and attracted too many nerds. Now I know Bill Gates is saying "be nice to nerds at school, one day they'll be your boss" but with wars and the what, it is the non-scientific whom eventually take command of a technology for a common future of mankind. Geocites, I guess, must be chock-a-block of incredible bores that just had to get their information into the public domain simply years ago (95 or 96?). Normal people are still being woken up to the power and addiction of the internet and when they do so they are going to want a little free-space. It is all well and good Yahoo stomping around holding Geocities on it's back, like the early-adopters of internet publishing technology matter! No one cares if the X million pages of nonsense produced by techies and nurds in the mid 90s simply vanishes into smoke. The future is flash crowds, instant fame and one day wonders and ART. Now is the time to launch more free webhosts and actually put some heart and soul into it, not a lofty and arrogant manner that advertises the sentiment "we are giving it to you free and you should be grateful that we host it for you ". Seriously? Does any author go to his publisher and tolerate such an attitude? Do you think the beatnik authors did? Did Ken Kasey or William Borroughs go to the publishers with cap in hand? No they raged in like burning pillars of fire, savaging a generation and upsetting traditions. When I give up even a small bit of poetry to a website, I have given up far more than that hosting service has: my creativity. The hosting service can take its routers and brouters and choke on them! And if a hosting service should ever treat me rudely or carelessly I will never do business with them again and furthermore instruct all friends to avoid them like the plague. So tell me who is king? Content. And who is father of the king? The author. This is art and something as cheap and simple as providing freewebspace to amateurs and start-ups should be done with grace and generosity. An artist remembers more whose hand it was that fed him! Away with your biological diagrams that tell me what a hand is and how the bones made it up.

[Ron Seigel]

HUH???

[Technics]

u mean u didnt understand that Ron :P.

[Gcites]

Ha ron you had nothing to contradict this time eh?

[Chicken]

Hmmm well...

[stu]

Originally posted by esockiton
This original post echoes requirements precisely of that which I am looking for (FTP, no pop-ups). While design is only a hobby, I have around 10 websites I need to put on different freehosts to get a "feel for the market". However I do know that in the long-term, small demands for webspace (e.g less than 5-10 megs) will always be met in abundance by hosting services keen to attract the experimental designers and non-professionals. Noting the speculation in dotcoms, trademark laws and the value of goodwill in the financial accounts make millions for founders, so it is difficult to see why one should ever have to pay for start-up webspace. Of course because the barriers to entry to running a website are small compared to a traditional business, I suspect that a lot of the future growth of e-commerce is going to still arrive from the small fry experimenting with commercial appearances while in fact there is little or no real financial investment. This is the whole point surely of freewebspace, if a site makes it big (even if just the domain name is sold as a charming icon to the fashionable) then surely the success of the individual website reflects on the host provider in general? The trouble with the old big guns such as geocities etc are not only the technical complaints but that they started early and attracted too many nerds. Now I know Bill Gates is saying "be nice to nerds at school, one day they'll be your boss" but with wars and the what, it is the non-scientific whom eventually take command of a technology for a common future of mankind. Geocites, I guess, must be chock-a-block of incredible bores that just had to get their information into the public domain simply years ago (95 or 96?). Normal people are still being woken up to the power and addiction of the internet and when they do so they are going to want a little free-space. It is all well and good Yahoo stomping around holding Geocities on it's back, like the early-adopters of internet publishing technology matter! No one cares if the X million pages of nonsense produced by techies and nurds in the mid 90s simply vanishes into smoke. The future is flash crowds, instant fame and one day wonders and ART. Now is the time to launch more free webhosts and actually put some heart and soul into it, not a lofty and arrogant manner that advertises the sentiment "we are giving it to you free and you should be grateful that we host it for you ". Seriously? Does any author go to his publisher and tolerate such an attitude? Do you think the beatnik authors did? Did Ken Kasey or William Borroughs go to the publishers with cap in hand? No they raged in like burning pillars of fire, savaging a generation and upsetting traditions. When I give up even a small bit of poetry to a website, I have given up far more than that hosting service has: my creativity. The hosting service can take its routers and brouters and choke on them! And if a hosting service should ever treat me rudely or carelessly I will never do business with them again and furthermore instruct all friends to avoid them like the plague. So tell me who is king? Content. And who is father of the king? The author. This is art and something as cheap and simple as providing freewebspace to amateurs and start-ups should be done with grace and generosity. An artist remembers more whose hand it was that fed him! Away with your biological diagrams that tell me what a hand is and how the bones made it up.


ahh too many words and letters!!! starting to fall asleep!!!

[jvv]

The use of paragraphs would come in handy in such a long posting...

[Chicken]

I was going to say that we don't charge by the paragraph. :)

[Nick]

Originally posted by esockiton
This original post echoes requirements precisely of that which I am looking for (FTP, no pop-ups). While design is only a hobby, I have around 10 websites I need to put on different freehosts to get a "feel for the market". However I do know that in the long-term, small demands for webspace (e.g less than 5-10 megs) will always be met in abundance by hosting services keen to attract the experimental designers and non-professionals. Noting the speculation in dotcoms, trademark laws and the value of goodwill in the financial accounts make millions for founders, so it is difficult to see why one should ever have to pay for start-up webspace. Of course because the barriers to entry to running a website are small compared to a traditional business, I suspect that a lot of the future growth of e-commerce is going to still arrive from the small fry experimenting with commercial appearances while in fact there is little or no real financial investment. This is the whole point surely of freewebspace, if a site makes it big (even if just the domain name is sold as a charming icon to the fashionable) then surely the success of the individual website reflects on the host provider in general? The trouble with the old big guns such as geocities etc are not only the technical complaints but that they started early and attracted too many nerds. Now I know Bill Gates is saying "be nice to nerds at school, one day they'll be your boss" but with wars and the what, it is the non-scientific whom eventually take command of a technology for a common future of mankind. Geocites, I guess, must be chock-a-block of incredible bores that just had to get their information into the public domain simply years ago (95 or 96?). Normal people are still being woken up to the power and addiction of the internet and when they do so they are going to want a little free-space. It is all well and good Yahoo stomping around holding Geocities on it's back, like the early-adopters of internet publishing technology matter! No one cares if the X million pages of nonsense produced by techies and nurds in the mid 90s simply vanishes into smoke. The future is flash crowds, instant fame and one day wonders and ART. Now is the time to launch more free webhosts and actually put some heart and soul into it, not a lofty and arrogant manner that advertises the sentiment "we are giving it to you free and you should be grateful that we host it for you ". Seriously? Does any author go to his publisher and tolerate such an attitude? Do you think the beatnik authors did? Did Ken Kasey or William Borroughs go to the publishers with cap in hand? No they raged in like burning pillars of fire, savaging a generation and upsetting traditions. When I give up even a small bit of poetry to a website, I have given up far more than that hosting service has: my creativity. The hosting service can take its routers and brouters and choke on them! And if a hosting service should ever treat me rudely or carelessly I will never do business with them again and furthermore instruct all friends to avoid them like the plague. So tell me who is king? Content. And who is father of the king? The author. This is art and something as cheap and simple as providing freewebspace to amateurs and start-ups should be done with grace and generosity. An artist remembers more whose hand it was that fed him! Away with your biological diagrams that tell me what a hand is and how the bones made it up.

Are we still talking about free webspace?

[Edited by Nick on 11-18-2000 at 09:26 PM]

[Gayowulf]

try http://www.freeze2k.com they allow zips and have no ads at all. offer 100mb space.

[dabman]

Cheers for those (although I must say I'm not *entirely* sure what esockiton was getting at...)

NetCabins look promising:

1) Their TOS are possibly the most readable I've ever seen (not that that's saying a lot...)
2) Their limits are fine for me - freeze 2k says it gives 100 megs and no ads, which I just find too good to be true - in that case, why doesn't everyone use them?
3) I have official confirmation, in plain English from a real human being (thanks, NC_TOM) that zipfiles are OK - I doubt anything I write will ever be close to 5 megs, as I'm nowhere near commercial standard.
4) They don't have those damn popups!
5) They actually bothered to listen to what I wanted, rather than trying to offer me (eg) a FWP without FTP, when I'd said that was essential.

It'll be a little while until I have a reasonable site to upload, but if they're still up and running then, they're looking good for a new subscriber. Thanks everyone! :)

[Kafei]

OMG! What the <<EDIT>> is up with this Ron Seigel guy?? <<EDIT>>.

<<MOD NOTICE>>
Name calling and insulting other members is uncalled for. All posts after 11/18 will be edited since they only lead to flames wars and do not add constructively to the discussion of the thread topics. Please use your better judgement.
<</MOD NOTICE>>

[Edited by Chicken on 11-20-2000 at 08:13 PM]

[Nick]

Originally posted by Kafei
OMG! What the <<EDIT>> is up with this Ron Seigel guy?? <<EDIT>>.

*cough*newbie!*hack*

What's up with this Kafei guy?? Comes in here on his first post and tells someone he doesn't know to shut up?? <<EDIT>>.

/sarcasm

.... Not everyone in the world is nice. Wake up and smell the <<EDIT>>.


<<MOD NOTICE>>
Name calling and insulting other members is uncalled for. All posts after 11/18 will be edited since they only lead to flames wars and do not add constructively to the discussion of the thread topics. Please use your better judgement.
<</MOD NOTICE>>

[Edited by Chicken on 11-20-2000 at 08:14 PM]

[Ron Seigel]

That about sums up my thoughts on the subject too Nick. ;) Kinda beat me to it there. When he's posted here as long as I have maybe he can talk. Until then....do what Nick said.

[Kafei]

hmm.. I'm leaning towards no, <<EDIT>>.


<<MOD NOTICE>>
Name calling and insulting other members is uncalled for. All posts after 11/18 will be edited since they only lead to flames wars and do not add constructively to the discussion of the thread topics. Please use your better judgement.
<</MOD NOTICE>>

[Edited by Chicken on 11-20-2000 at 08:15 PM]

[Ron Seigel]

Originally posted by Kafei
hmm.. I'm leaning towards no, just shut the hell up Seigel

Amazing! A whopping 2 posts in and you're already <<EDIT>> that's ever posted here. That's something to be proud of.

I've been posting here for over 2 years. I'll be damned if some <<EDIT>> like you is going to come here and tell me to shut up with his first 2 posts. If you don't want to read my posts I suggest you leave. I'm here to stay!

[Edited by Chicken on 11-20-2000 at 08:18 PM]

[Koolguy]

Calm down, just ignore him.

[Gcites]

Kafei i agree with you <<EDIT>>:)


<<MOD NOTICE>>
Name calling and insulting other members is uncalled for. All posts after 11/18 will be edited since they only lead to flames wars and do not add constructively to the discussion of the thread topics. Please use your better judgement.
<</MOD NOTICE>>

[Edited by Chicken on 11-20-2000 at 08:20 PM]

[Cracker]

You said it, Gcites, not me!

[Chicken]

Originally posted by dabman
Hello people. Before I start, I'd better say - yes, I *have* tried the Advanced and Power Searches...

What I'm looking for is a site to host a few smallish freeware programs I've written (all my own stuff, nothing over a meg). This is really the bare bones:

* 10 megs of space
* FTP upload - I *hate* those browser upload things
* must allow zipfiles
* I can live with a banner ad - but not popups
* reasonably short URL
* not likely to collapse any time soon...

This isn't just going to be a file warehouse - there'll be plenty of HTML as well - and the files themselves won't be hotlinked to from outside the site.

I've just spent several hours going around some of the main free hosts, and I have to say their T&Cs are mostly appallingly badly written - it's very hard to tell what is and isn't allowed.

I've been in this situation before - I used to be with Freedom2Surf, who were good, but then they suddenly decided that zipfiles were banned (without telling anyone). I FTP'd in one day to find all my zip archives were gone... Fortunecity allow files, I know, but they're so sloooow.

I just know someone'll say "get a paid host, then" - but I don't *want* one of those - that's why I'm in this forum! Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Maybe we've lost sight of the thread? If all that is going to happen is people are going to exchange senseless insults up and back, then this thread can be closed, but if there are others who'd like to add to the topic posted above feel free.

[DH77]

Geez fellas. He just wanted some advice. And now you guys are making a fuzz about something you have no control.

[Ron Seigel]

This board is really starting to SUCK. I guess you've become one of them now huh Chicken? Edit everything and anything you can get your hands on. You used to be fun. Now you're a moderator and you're all high and mighty and absolutely NO FUN. Rather sad actually.

Nice job Peo. You've taken this from a fun board to yet another boring piece of CRAP! Doesn't the web have enough boring pieces of crap disguised as message boards?

[Edited by Ron Seigel on 11-23-2000 at 12:34 PM]

[Chicken]

Originally posted by Ron Seigel
This board is really starting to SUCK. I guess you've become one of them now huh Chicken? Edit everything and anything you can get your hands on. You used to be fun. Now you're a moderator and you're all high and mighty and absolutely NO FUN. Rather sad actually.

Nice job Peo. You've taken this from a fun board to yet another boring piece of CRAP! Doesn't the web have enough boring pieces of crap disguised as message boards?

[Edited by Ron Seigel on 11-23-2000 at 12:34 PM]

Awwww, c'mon I'm still fun :) Maybe I interpret fun differently, but I don't think some newbie coming to a board insulting you for no reason as 'fun'? I'm not trying to be high and mighty, just keep topics going, and pointless name calling out. I'm sorry if I took the fun out of this thread, and I'll talk to Peo to see what he wants re: this. Ohhh-righty?

Just realize that if I edit one jack-donkey's posts, I have to edit yours too. The comment made to you was uncalled for, and I though you'd appreciate me killing it, but errr.... I guess not. As I said, I'll get with Peo on this and see what he wants.