delete the damn space god dammit

[Weapon]

take a look at my site http://www.otashki---------- there is a space under the submit button of the mailing list and I can't delete it help!!!

[YUPAPA]

this part:

<br>
<input type=radio name=action value=remove><font color="black" size="1">Unsubscribe</font>
<br><center><input type="submit" value="Submit"></center></form></p>
</TD></TR></TABLE></td></tr>

change to

<br>
<input type=radio name=action value=remove><font color="black" size="1">Unsubscribe</font>
<br><center><input type="submit" value="Submit"></center></form></p></TD></TR></TABLE></td></tr>

the </TD> must put after the </P>
You can't skip that to the next line!

I think this will work! I have experienced this problem before
and I use table tag for my site a lot!

[Weapon]

i TOOK UR ADVICE NOW IT IS F-ED WHAT DID U DO!

[YUPAPA]

if you put back </TD> like before, will that bring back to normal?

[Weapon]

no matter how hard I try I can't fix it now I know the problem is in the menu2 html where maling list is that is, but I can't fix it YUPAPA???:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :( :eek: :confused:

[Darin]

Would you mind posting the code from menu2.html? It's much harder to try and figure out what's wrong when all pages get joined together. I think I've had this problem before, and I fixed it somehow. Post the code and I'll see what I can do.

[YUPAPA]

You missed a </TD> here

<tr>
<td bgcolor="white" valign="middle"><font size="1">&gt;&gt;
Chat<br>
&gt;&gt; How To...<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href="cgi-bin/go.pl?www.otashkiboard----------">Message Board</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Polls<br>
&gt;&gt; Quiz<br></font>
</tr>

[YUPAPA]

put </FORM>
at the end




<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" bgcolor="#000000" align="center">
<tr>
<td>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td bgcolor="black" valign="middle" align="center"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="1"><b>Mailing List</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td bgcolor="white" valign="middle"><form action="/cgi-bin/mail.cgi" method=post>
<table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="6" width=100%>
<TR bgcolor="white">
<TD>
<p align="left">

<input type=text name="address" size=15><br>
<input type=radio name=action value=subscribe checked><font color="black" size="1">Subscribe</font>

<br>
<input type=radio name=action value=remove><font color="black" size="1">Unsubscribe</font>
<br><center><input type="submit" value="Submit"></center>
</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
</td></tr>
<br>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" bgcolor="#000000" align="center">
<tr>
<td>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td bgcolor="black" valign="middle" align="center"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="1"><b>Advert</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td bgcolor="white" valign="middle">
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</form>

[Weapon]

thanks guys, and sorry YUPAPA for getting angry but I fixed the prob all I need to know now is how to delete the space

[YUPAPA]

what was wrong with the code?
put the </FORM> under the </TABLE>

copy and paste the HTML code


<br>
<form action="/cgi-bin/mail.cgi" method=post>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" bgcolor="#000000" align="center">
<tr>
<td>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td bgcolor="black" valign="middle" align="center"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="1"><b>Mailing List</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td bgcolor="white" valign="middle">
<table cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="6" width=100%>
<TR bgcolor="white"><TD><p align="left">
<input type=text name="address" size=15><br>
<input type=radio name=action value=subscribe checked><font color="black" size="1">Subscribe</font>
<br><input type=radio name=action value=remove><font color="black" size="1">Unsubscribe</font>
<br><center><input type="submit" value="Submit"></center></p>
</TD></TR></TABLE></td></tr></table>
</td></tr></table><br>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" bgcolor="#000000" align="center">
<tr>
<td>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td bgcolor="black" valign="middle" align="center"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="1"><b>Advert</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td bgcolor="white" valign="middle">
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</form>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>


<noscript><!-- ads begin -->

[Weapon]

whats the point on the form tag? its already under the mailing list table tag so whu we need it again??:confused:

[Archbob]

I think if you remove the <p> from your original code, it would have worked like that. The <p> command I think skips a space(it does for me sometimes anyways).

[Weapon]

c'mon guys I do need help any1? meow *cough*psycho kat killer bully*cough*?

[lucifer]

move your <FORM ...> and </FORM> tags so that they are directly between the table start end tags

so
<TABLE....><FORM ...><TR>
......
</TR></FORM></TABLE>

that will do the trick

[Archbob]

Actually the most common reason for an extra space is there is probably some obscure <br> tag in there that is messing everything up.

[Weapon]

Originally posted by lucifer
move your <FORM ...> and </FORM> tags so that they are directly between the table start end tags

so
<TABLE....><FORM ...><TR>
......
</TR></FORM></TABLE>

that will do the trick
got to hand it to ya, your the best, anyways any1 know why when I add somehing above the </body> tag it always go under the advert part??

[meow]

I don't want to offend the dark master, but that is potentially dangerous since it can ---- up things in a strict browser. I haven't checked, but possibly Opera would choke on it. Why not move the FORM tags outside the TABLE altogether and be done with it. That's how it's normally done. It fills the same purpose , no extra whitespace within the TD and is syntactically correct.

[Weapon]

nah I tried ur way meow doesn't work

[Weapon]

nah I tried ur way meow doesn't work anyways the other did, anyway can someone look ay my page and tell me why when ever I add something it always go under the advert part and not at the boottom of page where I want it?

[lucifer]

Originally posted by meow
I don't want to offend the dark master, but that is potentially dangerous since it can ---- up things in a strict browser.sometimes we have to abuse things to get what we want out of them...

[Weapon]

c'mon lucifer u help me before do it again please?

[lucifer]

what's the prob what do you want where?

[Weapon]

I want the topsites button rifght at the bootom but when I call it thriugh ssi so it goes at the bottom it goes under the advert part, in frontpage it shows it at the bootom but on browser it shows under advetr

[lucifer]

Originally posted by Weapon
I want the topsites button rifght at the bootom but when I call it thriugh ssi so it goes at the bottom it goes under the advert part, in frontpage it shows it at the bootom but on browser it shows under advetr

I can't see it anywhere

spend some time checking you posts before Submitting so they are readable :p

[Weapon]

thats becoz I deleted the file where SSi was suppose to call, see that part where it says [error processing......] well that is where the topsites button keeps going

[lucifer]

put it after </table>

[Weapon]

isn't after it already? cause in frontpage it does

[lucifer]

I see


</SCRIPT>
<!-- ads end -->
</noscript>
[an error occurred while processing this directive]

</table>
</div>


</body>


always look at the source code never trust a wysiwyg

if you want a wysiwyg I'd switch to dreamweaver :)

[Weapon]

well I guess wysiwyg editors and MEOW are just evil;) :D

[lucifer]

Originally posted by Weapon
well I guess wysiwyg editors and MEOW are just evil;) :D
MEOW is just one sick puppy [sic]

[Weapon]

puppy? I though he was kitten

[meow]

Me standard kitten and I'm back!

Nope , weeper boy. You are wrong and the devil is (naturally) telling you wrong. That's the way of the devil. :D
The two ways display exactly the same. You don't gain nada by doing it the wrong way.

To prove the devil wrong...:p

http://www.muddle.f2s.com/weepon/form.html

[Weapon]

........??.......lucifer lets get him..........:D

[meow]

Yeah! Show me what wonders putting the FORM tag between TABLE and TR does. I'm waiting....

*meow licking mouth :p:p:p*

[Dusty]

The two ways display exactly the same. You don't gain nada by doing it the wrong way.

Umm, maybe I'm missing something (subtle sarcasm, maybe? inside joke? I didn't pick it up at any rate), but in both Netscape and IE, the second table is not followed by a space, it's centered in the outer table, and the first table is, it's pushed more toward the top. It's not slight either, in Netscape there's over a 18 pixel difference, it was less but nearly that in IE.

In Mozilla, on the other hand, the two were indeed identical.

I don't know of any browser so strict as that it wouldn't allow you to nest forms within tables, it even worked in Netscape 1.0 and on my very old WebTV viewer. (I tried looking at it in Mosaic but it kept crashing, then again Mosaic'll crash on anything).

[meow]

Ahem, I'm not sure I follow but...The outer tables (the two cell white/grey ones) are there only for your viewing pleasure and they are different.
The thing we talk about is the small table surrounding the text field and input button. The problem was that FORM adds whitespace (in this case seemingly after the button) if the tags are inside TD.

My point was that no tags others than those that constitute a table can be contained in TABLE. Was that muddy or what? :p And since they display the same there is no reason to break the rules.

I hope you don't see the small tables differently? In that case I've really missed something. ":o"

BTW Mosaic doesn't handle the type of URL f2s uses, I think. What's it called , http/1.1???

[Dusty]

Ahem, I'm not sure I follow but...The outer tables (the two cell white/grey ones) are there only for your viewing pleasure and they are different.
The thing we talk about is the small table surrounding the text field and input button. The problem was that FORM adds whitespace (in this case seemingly after the button) if the tags are inside TD.

Correct, if your page were comprised of only that one table then either way would be fine, but this is not true in Weapon's case (which, after all, is the supposed "topic" of the thread). Weapon does have two tables, one inside the other, just as you have on your examples. If you do it your way (which I will admit is the proper way, but since when has that stopped anyone from doing what looks best) there will be a noticeable gap between the inner and outer table. If you do it the more... "creative" way the gap is eliminated.

I think a better example would be http://209.222.113.65/tables.html. You might want to look at it soon, I'm not going to stay online forever.


... no tags others than those that constitute a table can be contained in TABLE ... since they display the same there is no reason to break the rules.

You can stick whatever tags you want anywhere you want. Doesn't mean they'll work, but you can. In this case, it does work, and since it is displayed differently there is due cause to bend the rules a bit.

[Weapon]

yeah three to one meow's gonna lose....:D

[Dusty]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Mosaic doesn't support F2S subdomains, neither did Netscape 1.0. I had to download the page and look at it off the hard drive for Netscape, but even that wouldn't work for Mosaic. I think my copy of Mosaic is just having problems in general, not specific to your page.

[meow]

Then put the form tags outside both tables. Apart from the fact that half of Frontpage's tables are unnecessary, it doesn't matter how many tables the form is wrapped in. There is space between "mailing lists" and "Advert" and that's where the FORM space would go. If that wasn't an option it's possible to "nest" forms through the page. Or get rid of the space with CSS.

And weepon - I agree with Lucifer. Lose FP. It's messy. ;)

[Dusty]

Oh, of course you can always put the form outside of the outer table. If you can, that is. In some layouts, particularly those with multiple forms in the same table, that's just not possible without creating an unwanted gap between elements. Even in Weapon's situation, if he wanted the space between the mailing list table and the advertisement table to be exactly so-and-so pixels high (i.e. using a transparent GIF given just the right height), a closing <form> tag could throw things out of alignment. Not saying that he does, but he could.

I've always strongly recommended against all CSS save its most basic uses. It just introduces too much browser variation for my taste. I try to do everything in plain HTML when I can. Plain HTML like <form> tags stuck between the <table> and <tr> tags (or between two <tr>'s or <td>'s, whatever fits the situation), which introduces no incompatibility between browsers (even browsers like Mozilla where the proper way works, this improper way works just as well).

And I agree with both you and Lucifer when it comes to FrontPage.

[Weapon]

I have mate using dreamweaver now, meoooooooohhhhhhhh, oh my gosh meow just got spanked

[meow]

Does your mate spank you? Huh, oh, well, ahem...:o

[meow]

Originally posted by Dusty

but this is not true in Weapon's case (which, after all, is the supposed "topic" of the thread).

You said it yourself. ;)

My point was that it's unessecary to make someone (weapon) believe that tricks are needed to make a page display as intended. I'm sure there are cases where the standard way won't work, but that's hardly the case here.

We have different views on CSS. To me it's an opportunity to make the page work well for more people not fewer. We don't think the same way - that's life.

[Dusty]

You said it yourself. ;)
Ah, but the original two options did not include putting the form outside both tables, only outside the inner one or inside it. Therefore, I'm right :D. Actually I didn't even consider putting it outside of both, that probably is the best solution. I posted the first message before even looking at Weapon's page. You must admit, though, my and Lucifer's way will work.


We have different views on CSS. To me it's an opportunity to make the page work well for more people not fewer. We don't think the same way - that's life.
Then we agree to disagree. I can live with that.


Weapon:
I have mate using dreamweaver now, meoooooooohhhhhhhh, who spank me
I'm going to attempt to translate that, and then I'll reply:

Via a good friend of mine I am now using Macromedia's Dreamweaver rather than Microsoft's FrontPage, Meow. Who will now spank me?

I'm a little unclear as to the meaning of that last line, but, um... I call "not it".

[meow]

*lol* :p
The outer table o my page is just for the presentation, it isn't involved.
Oh well, the important thing is that weep-on gets spanked. :D

[Weapon]

Originally posted by meow
Does your mate spank you? Huh, oh, well, ahem...:o
just makin mockery of ya name rephrased, meooohhhhhh who spank thee kitten?

[lucifer]

Meow your way may be better HTML but mine sorted the problem!

there is alway's more than one way to achieve things. I admire your desire to try to teach weep-on best practice but with so many shagged browsers around in many ways it's just academic

ditch f/p it's a big piece of crap and anyone who says otherwise is braindead