Open Source ..... What side are you on?

[Homeygwiz]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted everyone's honest opinion on the debate of Open Source for developing software. I know Microsoft has been attacking the Open Source community in recent news articles.

I believe a share in knowledge is great way to advance technology.

Then again stealing ideas for ones benefit of a profit ??

So you can see I am kinda neutral on the topic.

Well whats your take on this topic?

HGW - ' Everyone deserves a right to express their opinion.'

[gyrbo]

I use opensource, but I don't create. If I would create OS, I would not get anything in return.

[atlas]

How could you not like open source? It's people sharing information and code. Instead of paying thousands of dollars for proprietary software that locks you in, you can have software that's even better for free.



Then again stealing ideas for ones benefit of a profit ??


I'm troubled why you would think this. Open source doesn't steal ideas -- they are most often the innovators.

-mk

[el crapo]

I totally agree with atlas.........

[meow]

Yep.

[ashben]

I strongly believe in the Open Source Initiative (OSI), not only from a users point of view but also from a business point of view. We initiated a developer network (ashben.net) on this same model. Project collaboration and hybrid development is going to change the way we all use software. Instead of buying expensive applications for business or personal use we may eventually spend a lot less on support oriented services. Although, open source applications generally evolve faster and more rapidly than their commercial counterparts, the open source developer communitty stilll has to recognize the importance of support and quality as part of their products. Another important factor while developing an open source applicaiton or looking out for one, is its distribution/user license (GPL, LGPL etc).

Interesting: "While he (Bill Gates) has no objection to open-source development efforts, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates is concerned about the "Pac-Man-like nature" of the license that governs the distribution of such software."

More information: http://news.search.com/search?tag=ex.ne.fd.srch.ne&q=open+source

[LeX]

I also agree with atlas.

[LastActionHero]

Open source is the way to go. It's better to have the whole world sharing the knowledge they have and creating a better product than a bunch of programmers working on proprietary code. Open source helps more people in knowing how the software actually works and then if something goes wrong he actually knows or can ask other people who know about the software what and where did something actually go wrong and attempt to fix it. Already the web server market is being controlled by apache. Open source reduces costs reduces defects and improves overall efficiency of the software.

One thing is that, no company based on the open source architecture can survive, the profits are simply too miniscule. Only thing the companies can do is provide support or re-package open source software.

[Gayowulf]

I, too am for open source. I can't see why anyone wouldn't be for it.

[Webdude]

I am for both. They seem to be starting to keep each other in check. If there was one without the other, software could become shoddy. Opensource has come out with some good software, and has caused many software companies to better their own software.

Scenario 1)
Pay software goes out of biz and only Opensource is left. Two things would happen.
1. Much of the software would become shoddy. The people working on it figure they dont get paid, hence relax a bit...especially since there is no "pay" competition. This could lead to a price tag being put on Opensource software, which means no more Opensource.
Scenario 2)
Opensource loses. Well, we would be back to what it was before Opensource, and prices would be even higher. Don't need that.

The two are in competition, and as I said, they will/can keep each other in check and keep ever better software coming out to us. We really need to support both. The winner, of course, will be whoever continually provides us with the best software. (eg: linux beats NT, etc)

[lucifer]

open source code is great

the only down side is most of the documentation sucks
and you often have to be a lot of techy to decode what it's saying

[Homeygwiz]

Nice.... I like the info...:D


I do agree having more than one developer looking at code can be good and benificial to the software. They will always see something that could be improved which would make a better product.

:rolleyes:

But, on the other hand too much input from developers globally could entice non-standard documentation and code. This may make the code hard to read and lesson the chances of it being re-usable.

Only other problem like many of people have said during the posts on this topic is the money issue. Finding people who will supply the project with the capital.

Sometimes the power of money and the way it motivates people is far greater than striving for better products at lower prices to benefit all. Old saying Money talks BS walks. :p

Personally I would give open source a chance...

HGW - " It will be great to see where Open Source and Microsoft are in 10 years "

[ashben]

Originally posted by Homeygwiz
HGW - " It will be great to see where Open Source and Microsoft are in 10 years "

Microsoft shipping the kernel source code with Windows 2011?!?!

[bigperm]

I like open source because it's free, and I like microsoft, because when I right click, I get this little menu, that I can use to cut, copy, paste, undo, delete and select all.

[whatevah]

Open source should be mandatory....

even if you have to pay for programs, you should get the source coding with it.

I'm thinking, though... what would windows be like Open Source.. OH!!..... no bugs. hehe

[Homeygwiz]

Hey guys for some reason I cann't see how open source is going to work against big businesses.

For a few of the following reasons:

1.) There is a lack of money when giving out free source code with the product. Who gets compensated for origionally producing the code?

2.) With everyone having the ability to update the code when does the product have a status of being complete or be able to be released to the public. The application will be worked on always being improved without ever being completed.

3.) Is there any incentive to work on a program for free or to work for a company that pays you to produce code for a program?

4.) Will everyone who touches the program follow the standards. Will there be standards for all the software that comes with open source code out in the market?

Ideally I would like to see it happen. I just don't think it will ever take over the current Computer Software market today.

If there was a only way to take down the big businesses or force them to send there OS and other applications with Open Source in the package.

HGW - ' Not so optomistic on Open Source taken over as the new way of distributing software '

- ' As long as big business like Microsoft is around it will do anything to crush it. '

[Todd]

Originally posted by Homeygwiz
[B]1.) There is a lack of money when giving out free source code with the product. Who gets compensated for origionally producing the code?
I wouldn't say that... There is a lot of money to be made through other means. It could be consulting like VA Linux is going in to, it could be packing it up and making it easy to use like RedHat is trying to do, and it could be a monthly fee for 24x7 customer support. I'm someone who believes in the open source community but somewhere money has to be involved. It might even come from the person’s job where they are a <insert fancy title> and make $100,000 a year. Most of the people in the community are there because they love to develop and they don't want to or need to be paid. Otherwise they'll try donationware or other such methods.


2.) With everyone having the ability to update the code when does the product have a status of being complete or be able to be released to the public. The application will be worked on always being improved without ever being completed.
True, but you could also say Windows was never completed as there are always new versions out. I don't think anything is truly ever finished if there is a will to improve it. :)


3.) Is there any incentive to work on a program for free or to work for a company that pays you to produce code for a program?
The self satisfaction of helping others? ;) It seems to work for charities but usually they have more moral incentive. I again have to go back to my statements that there is money to be made through other means other then selling the operating system and/or specific piece of software.


4.) Will everyone who touches the program follow the standards. Will there be standards for all the software that comes with open source code out in the market?
I think that's only up to the provider of the program and how they would like to handle its licensing.

I'm not against Microsoft as they've actually helped the commuting industry more then most people would give them credit for. I'm not sure what would have happened if they wouldn't have expanded to where they are today, I'm sure someone else would have taken their place and who knows things may be even worse off. I won't make any guesses here but people have free will to choose what OS they want, what software they want, etc. As long as people have a choice between alternatives I don't really see a problem. That doesn't mean I'm Microsoft's biggest fan though. :D

[Homeygwiz]

Hey Todd,

I guess its hard to picture a community that isn't setup on Windows or software where there is know open source code and you have to buy new versions of the software.

I am also not a great fan of Microsoft but, there hasn't been anything out there that has sparked an interest for me except for Linix.

I haven't had a chance to install Linix on a PC and use it yet so I haven't be able to compare the Advantages of Linix vs. MS Operating Systems.

My whole point to this discussion is to get more info of what Open Source is and how it may effect us.

Which most of you guys in this post have already given me info to these questions.

Thank you....

I guess I am pretty excited to see whats hot and whats not for new Operation Systems and Programming languages in the coming years.

HGW - ' Keep the ideas going. ':cool:

[Todd]

Originally posted by Homeygwiz
I guess I am pretty excited to see whats hot and whats not for new Operation Systems and Programming languages in the coming years.
I'm anxious to see how far we advance in a few years as well. I'm not saying the current business models of various linux distro providers will work but they have the potential to. Microsoft fails horribly when it comes to good technical support but the open source community is usually united and helps one another. I think the real money to be made is probably consulting and management for larger companies that decide to drop their Windows systems in favor for an open source system.

We'll have to wait and see but I'm sure we'll see more down sizing among these companies before we see any real growth or profit for that matter. Hopefully they'll manage themselves properly and will reach that profitability stage.

[whatevah]

one of the major plusses for open source, is that if somebody is messed up, you can look at the coding, and fix it!

you can also customize the programs to the way you want it. I installed Caldera OpenLinux eDesktop on my brothers system, and I didn't like the default answer in the "whatis" command, so I changed it a little... any of you linux people should know what I mean. hehe

[niv]

Originally posted by whatevah
Open source should be mandatory....

even if you have to pay for programs, you should get the source coding with it.

I'm thinking, though... what would windows be like Open Source.. OH!!..... no bugs. hehe

i am too for the open source revolution, i make my own scriptlets myself, but the thing is what about those who cannot understand simple things like even DOS 3.0? you may ask these people what's not to understand, but some people are too afraid (i'd rather call them stupid, but then again...) to use open source programs because they think they're risky, and would rather stay huddled near a software tyrant like microsoft.

[whatevah]

Originally posted by needcgispace


i am too for the open source revolution, i make my own scriptlets myself, but the thing is what about those who cannot understand simple things like even DOS 3.0? you may ask these people what's not to understand, but some people are too afraid (i'd rather call them stupid, but then again...) to use open source programs because they think they're risky, and would rather stay huddled near a software tyrant like microsoft.

yeah.... at the present, most distributions do require at least a little knowledge of the computer... I've heard that Mandrake is easy to install, though. I think that the different GUI's need to improve a bit more, as well.

because there is no huge company (read: $$$$$$) promoting open source, it's gonna take a while, before people try it. but, as more people do... more people will.

[zazoo]

open source is great

and it works really well too

I mean like... look at the internet, just about everything on the net is in open source (html, cgi ect) and that has been sucsessful enough to change busness forever

[niv]

Originally posted by zazoo
open source is great

and it works really well too

I mean like... look at the internet, just about everything on the net is in open source (html, cgi ect) and that has been sucsessful enough to change busness forever

even ASP is open-source! :eek:, well that's 'cause it has perlscript :D

[Koolguy]

Or just break into Micro$oft's computer system and MAKE windows an open source project.

[Homeygwiz]

Will Open Source on Applications and Operating Systems make them week to hacking or viruses?

I just figure if more and more people have opportunity to see the code or get at the code in a program won't it be more vulnerable to hackers or viruses that may be damaging to the system.

This was just a thought I had....

HGW - ' May the future change for the better '

[zazoo]

Originally posted by Homeygwiz
Will Open Source on Applications and Operating Systems make them week to hacking or viruses?

I just figure if more and more people have opportunity to see the code or get at the code in a program won't it be more vulnerable to hackers or viruses that may be damaging to the system.

This was just a thought I had....

HGW - ' May the future change for the better '

thats exactly right and its one of the reasons open source isnt as populare as is should be when it comes to pcs

[LastActionHero]

Originally posted by zazoo


thats exactly right and its one of the reasons open source isnt as populare as is should be when it comes to pcs

That is exactly not right. The more people who look at the source code the more people can figure out what the problem is with the source code. You will be surprised it take less than 10 minutes to bring out a patch when a security hole has been found in an open source software.

But the scariest thing yet is when linux gets popular on the desktop, imagine hundreds of millions of people running there system as root and with every deamon like sendmail listening on some port of the system. God save us from the zombies then.

About the dollars and where they will come from. IBM has started to promote open source very strongly, even Oracle does. And Sun already is with the open-source movement. What we now need is a good business model and sound planning.

[Homeygwiz]

I think only the Techies and medium to advanced user will be the only ones supporting open source.

Since the vast users around the world aren't programmmers or computer literate I believe they won't support the change for Open Source.

They would just assume to stay with Windows operating system instead of Linix Open Source operating system.

So the big challange is for everyone who isn't in the Computer field or is just a normal user to get them into wanting Open Source.

I don't know if that can be done.

HGW - ' A lot of people out there are having trouble trying to turn their computer on '

[gyrbo]

That would make me a techie or medium to advanced user!

[lucifer]

Originally posted by gyrbo
That would make me a techie or medium to advanced user! you are! most computer users wouldn't have a clue what something even as 'simple' as ftp is

[Homeygwiz]

you are! most computer users wouldn't have a clue what something even as 'simple' as ftp is

Your correct on that one Phrozen...

Most users only use Solitar or word processing programs like Word for there main use of their PC.

I am a techie and proud of it.

HGW - ' I learn something new everyday '

[Homeygwiz]

quote:
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you are! most computer users wouldn't have a clue what something even as 'simple' as ftp is
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Your correct on that one Phrozen...

Most users only use Solitar or word processing programs like Word for there main use of their PC.

I am a techie and proud of it.

HGW - ' I learn something new everyday '





Opps.... Sorry I forgot who I was talking to ....

I mean Lucifer....

Oh well typing and submitting the post too too fast.... I guess I was bound to make that mistake.

HGW - ' Moving too fast to catch.. '

[meow]

Ach, "advanced user" is just a term used by support and sales persons to kiss ---.