Feminism hates the gipper and more.

[rmsharpe]

Has anyone noticed the uprising in anti-conservative feminism?

In my opinion, feminism has become the lobby for abortions with no questions asked, and the new face of the female Democratic party. I'm sick of this liberal "women's" orginization. They're not about women, they're about liberals. Liberal women (who most of them are probably lesbians that hate men anyhow)

[Giancarlo]

I am too. The Democratic Party has truely become a politically disgusting party, which I feel could collapse within five years. Do you think these Women Liberal Movements have anything to do with women? No, it is all politics. Luckily the Republican Women's Movement is picking up speed.

[rmsharpe]

// off topic message
// via C-like comment

Gian, do you have AIM/MSN?

[Giancarlo]

I only use ICQ: 65368669.

[rmsharpe]

Well, I added you to my list :\ whahaha ;)

[Giancarlo]

Impossible, I need to authorize it. Anyways back to the topic.

[niv]

are you people pro-life? if so, you make me sick.

<< EDIT >>

whoops!

[Giancarlo]

I am neutral in the abortion thing... hey I am not a woman, I don't know what they go through. It is just overall this Feminist Liberalism that sickens me.

[WorldWarGeneral]

I wouldn't recommend anyone to have an abortion (unless it was rape or incest, or something similar, I'd consider it), but I don't think it's the government's place to say, "no, you can't do it because it's morally wrong" I like the republican stance on a lot of issues, but it really gets to me when they run around trying to force their "traditional values" (which inevitably means "Christian") on everyone. Not all republicans do, of course, but too many do. I like the right on most issues, but I despise the religious right. It should be crushed with all possible haste.

[rmsharpe]

I take it you're pro-abortions and anti-death penalty, right? (needcgispace)

[Giancarlo]

I am Right-Wing, yet not Religious Right Wing. To clear up any misinterpretions, I support Bush. Though I am neutral in one or two areas that Bush has ideas in.

[niv]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I take it you're pro-abortions and anti-death penalty, right? (needcgispace)

damn right i am ;)

[WorldWarGeneral]

I wouldn't consider my self pro-death penalty, I find it rather barbaric. But it should be kept around for "special" cases. Ones that are really terrible and heinous. Like those two kids in England, that tortured that little boy to death? They should have been punished more severely. I don't care how young they were, they were old enough to understand what they were doing.

[rmsharpe]

You won't give people that haven't been born a chance, but you'd be more than happy to keep people who've had many chances to stay alive.

How do you sleep at night?

[Giancarlo]

I myself am Pro-Death Penalty... except I think the system needs to be cleaned up and reformed.

[niv]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
You won't give people that haven't been born a chance, but you'd be more than happy to keep people who've had many chances to stay alive.

How do you sleep at night?

i believe by killing someone as capital punishment is just as bad as being the murderer.

[WorldWarGeneral]

I don't consider a fetus a person. I'm sorry, but I don't. Late term abortions should be banned, but in early pregnancy, the fetus is not sentient.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by needcgispace


i believe by killing someone as capital punishment is just as bad as being the murderer.

Yes, but we are not talking about captial punishment.
We are talking about abortion... how can you kill a life that never has been born yet? (There goes my neutrality)

[rmsharpe]

needcgispace still hasn't answered my question: how is it bad to kill a criminal, but how is it good to kill someone who hasn't even seen the light of day?

[niv]

no, rmsharpe was responding to me being anti-death penalty.

i am pro-choice because if one is in a bad financial situation and cannot support a/one more child, i think it should be that that person can be eligible for an abortion.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by needcgispace
no, rmsharpe was responding to me being anti-death penalty.

i am pro-choice because if one is in a bad financial situation and cannot support a/one more child, i think it should be that that person can be eligible for an abortion.

Adoption?

[WorldWarGeneral]

If a woman is forced into the pregnancy, (rape, etc.) she shouldn't be forced to live with the constant reminder for 9 months.

[rmsharpe]

When did "responsibility" become something for the government to do, but common people to avoid?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
If a woman is forced into the pregnancy, (rape, etc.) she shouldn't be forced to live with the constant reminder for 9 months.

Actually, that is where I am neutral in. In all other cases, no.

[niv]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
When did "responsibility" become something for the government to do, but common people to avoid?

what about those who lack common sense?

[WorldWarGeneral]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
When did "responsibility" become something for the government to do, but common people to avoid?

Huh? Sorry, but I'm not sure who you were responding to. This topic is moving rather fast...

[rmsharpe]

Then the parents will end up in court for child abuse and lack of child support.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Oh, okay. Well, like needcgispace said, some people are just plain stupid and lack the common sense needed to understand such a concept. I'm generally against government involvement in private affairs, but I think this is an exception where the government should allow people to get an abortion if they can't support the child. Of course, paradoxically, if they were smart in the first place, they wouldn't have conceived the child, so they probably wouldn't have enough sense to seek an abortion either...

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by needcgispace


what about those who lack common sense?

They should be taught by others about safe sex.

[niv]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


They should be taught by others about safe sex.

that doesn't always work.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Many of the same people who advocate the strongest against abortion are against sex ed in schools.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by needcgispace


that doesn't always work.

But it can help an awful lot though.

[niv]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
Many of the same people who advocate the strongest against abortion are against sex ed in schools.

Studies show that boys who recieve sex education are more likely to become fathers. It was on NPR a couple of weeks ago.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


But it can help an awful lot though.

Agreed. But sex ed could use an overhaul. Instead of just coming out and saying in plain terms, that "if you have intercourse, there's a good chance of pregnancy, and it isn't something good", instructors dance around the subject. At least they do, here in Indiana. But Indiana is strongly conservative with great emphasis on "family values" Showing a sex ed video that's more like a dry biology class video isn't going to convince people not to go and have unprotected sex at a party or something. When that happens, forcing the child to live in abject poverty with often divorced or separated teen parents where at least one dropped out of highschool is hardly better than aborting it 2-3 months into the pregnancy.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Originally posted by needcgispace


Studies show that boys who recieve sex education are more likely to become fathers. It was on NPR a couple of weeks ago.

You wouldn't think that teaching people about activities that almost never turn out well would cause them to go out and do it. But I wouldn't dispute the fact that some people leave sex ed thinking "I'm going to get my girlfriend to do that this weekend" What's NPR, by the way? I've never heard of the acronym.

[Giancarlo]

NPR = National Public Radio.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Never heard of it. Is it a US thing? Is it all over the country?

[Giancarlo]

http://www.npr.org
It is all over the country in the US, I am surprised you never heard of it.

[niv]

NPR > PRI (public radio international)

go here for a live stream feed: www.wnyc.org

[WorldWarGeneral]

Yeah, me too. I'll tune in later on tonight. Is it dedicated to certain political view-points, or fairly balanced?

[niv]

it is non-biased non-partisan.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Is there a difference between the NPR and the PRI? Or does one just cover US news while the other covers world news?

[niv]

the local stations cover NPR news briefly, as well as local news. the NPR covers national and international issues, mainly national, as well as other stuff. the PRI covers mainly international issues and other stuff.

[WorldWarGeneral]

So the local stations they list on npr.org will only do local news and briefly cover NPR news? Are there local PRI stations? To get "full" NPR, do you have to listen over the internet? (Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but this NPR/PRI thing sounds rather interesting)

[niv]

hehe, i may have confused you. here:




local NPR stations <--- local/national/international
^
|
NPR<-------national news
^ ^
| |----- national programs i.e. the news hour
PRI<----national/international news
^
|---- international programs

[WorldWarGeneral]

okay, so NPR is national stuff, PRI is national and international stuff. So the only way to listen to NPR or PRI is through the internet (not the local NPR)?

[MrsGiggles]

But do you know ANYTHING AT ALL about modern feminism? No, Camile Paglia on TV doesn't count.

[niv]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
okay, so NPR is national stuff, PRI is national and international stuff. So the only way to listen to NPR or PRI is through the internet (not the local NPR)?

you can listen to the NPR and the PRI (through NPR) through local NPR stations, or you can use that link i gave you for WNYC, my local NPR station.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Oh, okay thanks. I searched for my local station, so I'll go tune in. Who was that directed at, MrsGiggles? And who's Camile Paglia? (sorry, but I seem to be a little dense today)

[Dusty]

I'm a tad bit confused, I'm not sure which posts are in response to which other posts and some posts I just don't know what they're talking about at all. Whatever the case, you've opened a can of worms, Rmsharpe.

The following is not a response to anyone in particular, just the whole pro-life group.

I'll add in my thoughts. I'm pro-choice, I'm kinda back and forth on the death penalty, but in general I'd say I'm anti-capital punishment.

Killing a life yet to be born? I'd hardly call it "a life". Yes, it is alive, but so is a blade of grass, and people mow their lawns everyday. It's just a bundle of cells, not conscious, not aware, alive but not "a life".

Let's take, for example, a fourteen year old American girl. She willfully had sex, no rape involved. She and her partner did not use a condom or any other type of protection because of the stigma that is associated with sex and anything sexual in this puritanical country. Now she's pregnant? What do you suggest?

Adoption?

And have the fourteen year old girl carry it for nine months, give birth to it, then go through the physiological trauma of loosing her first baby?

She should have been more careful?

You're using the baby as a punishment for the unready mother, and here I thought you were on its side. I'd rather prevent the life of being not yet "living" than take the life of one that is.

Was it their fault for her pregnancy? Of course it was, I'm sure they know that better than any of us, do we need to remind them? A car wreck, a man spills a cup of coffee, veers off the road, and smashes into a light poll. Do we leave him there, taunt him from the curb "It's your mess, get yourself out!" Just because someone bears the blame doesn't mean they shouldn't be helped.

If the pregnancy was aborted, everything is solved. No child is brought into a world where it feels unloved, where it feels that he's an embodied punishment to the mother that didn't want him. The mother's anguish is alleviated. She won't have to carry it or give birth to it, she won't go through the mental trauma of giving up her firstborn, and she'll have learned not to do it again.

And was it solely her fault to begin with? Why were they having unprotected sex? Because though America feigns a "safe sex" movement, we shun all forms of sexual congress, we hush them up, we don't talk about them, sex is dirty, sex is wrong, why would you want to know such things? How could they even attempt to have sex safely when they're kept in the dark about sex totally and what little they do know they're afraid to express and question because they're led to think it's wrong? She hadn't been taught about sex in school, sex education is a farcical. Instructors dance around the subject, always keeping a distance, speaking in vague metaphors, answering questions incompletely or not at all. Mother's not to blame for the pregnancy, society is! If you don't want abortions, then destigmatize sex.

Doesn't matter, she's still responsible, you might say.

Okay, let's take a rape. Is that woman expected to give birth to that child? You're thinking only for the unborn that couldn't care either way because it can't care, you're completely neglecting how mentally damaging it would be to the mother to carry and give birth to a baby born of rape. An aborted fetus is dead, its troubles are over. The troubles of a mother giving birth to that child have just begun.

You're worried that abortions would give a license to be incautious?

How callus do you think these women are? "Friday's my abortion day," Sally said to Jan. An abortion's not a walk in the park. What's the alternative? Have 'em all poppin' out babies, right and left? Going to underground "abortionists" in alleyways or trying to abort it themselves, then consequently bleeding to death or die of infection? They won't seek help until it's too late, they've done a bad, bad thing that they don't want anybody to know about. The best way to prevent something is to bring it out in the open.

I'm nearing three pages, I'll stop now, I've made my point.

[jason]

i am neutral in the arbortion thing too. i don't like the idea of abortion but feel its a necessary evil in the cases of insest, rape or something simular. what i do think is that there is a growing lack of responsiblity in both teens and adults towards sex.
i live in a small rual community and in this one town its common to see 12-14 year old girls with babies and its sad. they can't possibly raise them right. i think a big factor is alchol and drugs, being so messed up and not thinking of protection and just looking to satisfy whatever urges they have at the time.
is the fetus alive? i don't know but isn't there a heart beat? doesn't it breath? if so that is a living thing imo.
also there are a number of states that have passes laws that allow mothers to give their newborn children to hospitals or firestation no questions asked. its better than leaving them in dumpsters but its is a sad statement on society.

[Gayowulf]

I agree with Dusty, in most cases. I tend to get a little bit annoyed when people try to kill abortionists. it seems strange.

As for feminisim, it really, really pisses me off. I have been deemed a Woman Hater by some females close to me. I just can't understand extreme feminists. What got to me was an editorial in the paper about some women who were "Plaster Casters". Women who, in the 60s and 70s, took plaster casts of rock stars penises. The writer referred to Jimi Hendrix as Whammy bar, and generally made fun of men throughout the whole thing. Imagine the outcry if it was written by a man about other men who took plaster casts of women's torsos, and made fun of women, and the torsos specifically.

Sory if this doesn't make much sence. Im not in a thinking mood.

[Dusty]

doesn't it breath?No, not exactly. How would it breath in the womb?

[jason]

well not like we do but the fetus does breath in the womb it gets oxygen from the mothers blood stream, just not sure at what stage the lungs, heart or brain begins development. when they do i would classify that as being alive.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Dusty
If the pregnancy was aborted, everything is solved. No child is brought into a world where it feels unloved, where it feels that he's an embodied punishment to the mother that didn't want him. The mother's anguish is alleviated. She won't have to carry it or give birth to it, she won't go through the mental trauma of giving up her firstborn, and she'll have learned not to do it again.
I think your overlooking the fact that the mother will have to live with the fact that she essentially killed her potential child. You can't tell me that the woman when she's older and more mature won't look back and rethink her choice. She'll probably go back over that choice in her mind a thousand times again and again.

Personally I think adoption should be used. Yes, she has to put up with 9 months of pregnancy but she gives another person the gift of live and she makes the day of a family that has been waiting years to adopt a new baby girl or boy. Then when she is older she won't have to go back and rethink the situation but I'm sure she will have to have a long talk with that child over why she did it the way she did.

I think that's the best solution and I don't think abortions are right as a personal belief but I don't think the government should outlaw them. That would only lead to more problems that I won't get in to.

[LastActionHero]

The question here is about choice of the individual. No goverment is allowed to question the choice of the individual. It should be left to the individual to decide whether she want's an abortion or not.

You do have the choice of when you want the baby right? By using the right contraceptions. Why not leave it to the individual whether she wants the baby or not. Why should the government have a say on that. It's her baby not the government's baby.

[LastActionHero]

BTW Mrs Giggles can you please elaborte on your point? What is modern day feminism? I thought all feminism was the same?

[WorldWarGeneral]

I thought all feminism was the same too. There were extreme feminists back in the '60s-'70s and there are today in the '00s But she probably won't reply, after all, the opinions of us "young people" are completley irrelevant.

[LastActionHero]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
I thought all feminism was the same too. There were extreme feminists back in the '60s-'70s and there are today in the '00s But she probably won't reply, after all, the opinions of us "young people" are completley irrelevant.

Yeah. BTW the man in your avatar closely resembles Bruce Willis. I think so.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Now that I look at it, the avatar does sort of resemble bruce willis. It's actually General Douglas MacArthur. I tried to find a better picture, but couldn't with the size and dimension restrictions.

[LastActionHero]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
Now that I look at it, the avatar does sort of resemble bruce willis. It's actually General Douglas MacArthur. I tried to find a better picture, but couldn't with the size and dimension restrictions.

Yeah I thought so. Maybe you should send it to Bruce Willis. He will be excited :D

Ok, Ok I know Peo and Todd are red with anger back to topic. ;)

[Giancarlo]

The person involved with the pregancy, should look at adoption instead of abortion. Despite the fact that some of you don't think the fetus is alive, I do, it is ending a potential life. I stand unsure about rape/incest cases, and probably would agree with an abortion.


But she probably won't reply, after all, the opinions of us "young people" are completley irrelevant.

If she thinks that, she is an absolute idiot... we make up the future and how things are runned, we are the next people in line to run the nation. *Gasp*

[WorldWarGeneral]

Originally posted by Giancarlo

If she thinks that, she is an absolute idiot... we make up the future and how things are runned, we are the next people in line to run the nation. *Gasp*

Oh, agreed. But of course this is just from someone that spends his time in a pink bunny suit bopped out on crack... (from one of MrsGiggles's offensive statements)

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral


Oh, agreed. But of course this is just from someone that spends his time in a pink bunny suit bopped out on crack... (from one of MrsGiggles's offensive statements)

She is not going to feel welcomed here anymore.

[Gayowulf]

I rethought my last post in this thread. I suppose you could say i am pro-choice. That doesnt necessarily mean i support abortion, it means that should the woman feel that the pregnancy is unwanted she would be allowed to choose to have it aborted.

[WorldWarGeneral]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Gayowulf.

[syd]

I think abortion's disgusting. I am pro-choice and feel everyone has the right to do what they want, but I think it's disgusting plain and simple. When is a fetus a bundle of cells, and when is it a baby? There's no definite answer.

I am against the death penalty though. For the sole reason that innocent people have been executed. From the time of DNA testing (apprx 1989), many DEATH ROW criminals have been found innocent where the case included rape or another crime where DNA is present. I'm not sure the exact number. Someone innocent (the victim) is already dead, why should we kill another innocent? Is killing a hundred guilty worth killing an innocent man? That man has a wife, kids, mother, and father too. It's murder again, sanctioned by the state. Luckily my country does not have the death penalty.