Overselling, and why i'm sick of it.

That is it! After reading the 1,0000000000 company that offers 10000gb space and 100000tr bandwidth for $1.99 a year I am seriously irritated!
New thing here i suggets WHM should limiting overselling to 10% if atall, honest companies like us cannot compete with hosts offering ridiculous amounts of space/band for cheap cheap price. With many, the costs simply don't add up, they couldn't be cutting even, let alone making a profit.
When massive oversellers servers crash becuase of overload (from customers attempting to use the space/band they were promised) it leaves customers feeling raw, their more likely to go to one of the more famous companys like godaddy.com, instead of us smaller sellers.
Am I the only person who feels this way?

2GB space and 50GB data-transfer for $5.50 isn't extremely cheap?

I bet Hotwheelz feels the same way though... ;)

Hey, welcome to the world of business!

you're definitely not alone. I think the only way "honest" hosts can survive is to market locally, or do more gimmicks. hosting biz is definitely no longer cool these days. Because its so easy and cheap to be a host, a new competitor is born everyday offering huge packages for any price they like.

<EDIT> Nevermind.............

:D I didn't literaly mean that, I just wanted to get my point across:D
5.50 may be cheap but if someone wants that space their money covers it, and it won't crash our server !:P

If you're worried about losing possible customers to the "1000GB/1000000GB for $2" company, perhaps you're after the wrong people. The people who expect everything for practically nothing are the people who always bother support as well. Maybe you shouldn't be going after those people.

In all honesty, if price is the only thing you have to lure customers, you may want to re-think your business.

Quote:

That is it! After reading the 1,0000000000 company that offers 10000gb space and 100000tr bandwidth for $1.99 a year I am seriously irritated!

Thats seriously messed up, nobody would sell that much space forn that little.

dude have you not even heard of the term 'exaggeration'?

lol...sorry im in more of serious mood than usual. I guess its all the stress....i feel sooo stupid now...lol

If you're worried about losing possible customers to the "1000GB/1000000GB for $2" company, perhaps you're after the wrong people. The people who expect everything for practically nothing are the people who always bother support as well. Maybe you shouldn't be going after those people.

In all honesty, if price is the only thing you have to lure customers, you may want to re-think your business.

Fair comment, what it's the fact that new customers on the market may not know what to expect, and think hosts like us are a rip off and the other ones are offering a decent deal.
Then when the massive overselling host goes under/their servers go under the customer is lost to us small companies.

But I see what you mean, and in some ways i agree.

Overselling doesnt bother us, people forget that people move hosts every day & we are talking millions, people always need new hosts so it doesnt matter. 99.9% of the time, overselling hosts die after 3-6 months, its a known fact & 99.9% of the time they are run by kids who try to get a bit extra cash. Dont worry about it just focus on your company & let others worry :-).

Overselling is a serious issue, but the hosts that are like that cant afford to maintain it for long!

If you're worried about losing possible customers to the "1000GB/1000000GB for $2" company, perhaps you're after the wrong people. The people who expect everything for practically nothing are the people who always bother support as well. Maybe you shouldn't be going after those people.

In all honesty, if price is the only thing you have to lure customers, you may want to re-think your business.
Perfectly said, again. Certainly the ones that expect everything for nothing will have a million billion questions, sometimes just because they can.

But, one still has to remember that as with any business its like a revolving door for the customers, some come and some leave, just makes it a bit easier for a host to catch a new client.

What you need to do is suck it up and do the besting hosting job you can do with your company. Don't be worried about what the rest of them are doing. What I did with Nextbox is find a common ground for pricing, support, server specifications, etc. Then you can expand into other services, but no matter how many clients you have, they should all recieve the same great service.

I think most people are smart enough not to go with offers like that, I know I wasn't really, but that's because I was totally ignorant and stupid. But anyone who does research and actually knows what they're doing, won't go with offers like that.

I agree with Darthvadersmaster, don't try to compete with them. Just because there are a large number of people on tight budgets at this forum doesn't mean everyone is like that. The majority of people are willing to pay good money if they can get good support and solid performance. All that you have to do is find a niche and target that - I believe Donald Trump said the secret to success is pursuing a specific section of the market, not the whole market.

Wow why does everyone think that the oversellers are all kiddie hosts? GET REAL People, the small hosts are the "kiddie" hosts when compared to the overselling big names. The small hosts are the only ones who will look in these forums for customers, and the small hosts are the ones that close down every day! I really don't know why everyone is ignorant to these facts!

I'm frankly getting tired of the complaining, it's not "cheating"! It's a known fact that when people are faced with decisions, when they see something more being offered for the same price, they'll get it, regardless of whether or not (most likely not) they will ever use the extra features! This is the idea behind overselling, and since it's sooo cheap, the customer has nothing to lose and everything to gain. Worse comes to worst, the host goes down, they lost their 2$ or w/e the prices are these days and they get on w/ it.

IMO, the only people who would ever buy expensive hosting are those who actually understand the hosting business and how reselling, pricing and servers work and will pay extra for the peace of mind (i.e Bruce). Unfortunately for small business hosts, not everyone is so smart, and the % of customers willing to see past the overselling is minimal.

Sorry if this bugs any of you but I had to get it off my chest. Just my 0.02 on the matter (for the last time)

I never said that all all oversellers are kiddie hosts.
My opinion is that if you say you will provide a service, make provisions so you can provide it. The customer has got a lot to lose, precious data can be lost (things like forums, even with daily backups can be affected) and clients lose faith in us. People on this forum may be small but not all are kiddy hosts
never confuse small with kiddy.

2GB space and 50GB data-transfer for $5.50 isn't extremely cheap?

I bet Hotwheelz feels the same way though... ;)

LOL People are finally getting to know me.

Well, I tell you my secret... back in my "Jump the Bandwagon Post"
I made a few changes... my new servers have over 400gb of storage space on 10mbps unmetered lines.

P4's 1gb RAM, 2gb RAM, based on the box, and I'm adjusting my prices..
This time of the year, my ROI vs Profit Ratio goes DOWN because of the season, so it appears that I'm overselling.

But I'm not.

Jump the bandwagon boys and girls. Just keep it honest

I have a plan to make a webhost accreditation committee someday. Something that will check and thoroughly review a host if its reliable, legally registered, reputable, etc... this way I think we can somehow prevent "kiddie host" overselling at ridicolus prices. This way customers will be persuaded to go with hosts that comes with a "Certifide seal"... but I do not how I can I achieve this at the moment. Someone wanna go with me and push this thru?

my new servers have over 400gb of storage space on 10mbps unmetered lines.

I personally wouldn't place 400GB worth of accounts on a 10mbps line, whether it's unmetered (Only around 3000GB bandwidth) or not.

The speeds you actually get on 10mbps is around 1.2 MegaByte/s. This, for the whole server? Peak times will have your servers crawling at snail speed. Push more traffic than that line can handle, you will get packet loss and overall slowness for everyone on that server. Essentially using a 10mbps line is a cheaper way for a host to get more accounts on a server.

Miles better performance on a 1000GB/2000GB BW server with a 100mbps port.

I personally wouldn't place 400GB worth of accounts on a 10mbps line, whether it's unmetered (Only around 3000GB bandwidth) or not.

The speeds you actually get on 10mbps is around 1.2 MegaByte/s. This, for the whole server? Peak times will have your servers crawling at snail speed. Push more traffic than that line can handle, you will get packet loss and overall slowness for everyone on that server. Essentially using a 10mbps line is a cheaper way for a host to get more accounts on a server.

Miles better performance on a 1000GB/2000GB BW server with a 100mbps port.

Thanks, if I break 40% capacity on one box, I'll go 100/4tb. Or similar.

Actually all hosting companies over-subscribe. That is how they make money. If you actually saw the price of not over-selling you probably would think that there is something wrong. The only companies that do not oversell are rackspace and ourselves. To my knowledge rackspace offers a nice server for about $900/month:
Intel Xeon 3.2 Ghz
1 GB DDR-2 RAM
2x73 GB SCSI Hard drive
SCSI RAID controller
Redundant Power Supply
Redundant Cooling Systems
150 GB Bandwidth monthly
10 GB Managed Backup weekly
Notice a dedicated server that only has 150GB of bandwidth. There are a few more companies, but most of the industry depends on over-subscribing.

The only companies that do not oversell are rackspace and ourselves.

~

Notice a dedicated server that only has 150GB of bandwidth. There are a few more companies, but most of the industry depends on over-subscribing.

What crack do you smoke?

If you're worried about losing possible customers to the "1000GB/1000000GB for $2" company, perhaps you're after the wrong people. The people who expect everything for practically nothing are the people who always bother support as well. Maybe you shouldn't be going after those people.

In all honesty, if price is the only thing you have to lure customers, you may want to re-think your business.

I couldn't agree more! :-)

Take apt-hosting.net for example. They oversold, clearly not kids, but they had to close down because of it. Oversellers will get theirs eventually.

Actually all hosting companies over-subscribe. That is how they make money. If you actually saw the price of not over-selling you probably would think that there is something wrong. The only companies that do not oversell are rackspace and ourselves. To my knowledge rackspace offers a nice server for about $900/month:
Intel Xeon 3.2 Ghz
1 GB DDR-2 RAM
2x73 GB SCSI Hard drive
SCSI RAID controller
Redundant Power Supply
Redundant Cooling Systems
150 GB Bandwidth monthly
10 GB Managed Backup weekly
Notice a dedicated server that only has 150GB of bandwidth. There are a few more companies, but most of the industry depends on over-subscribing.


Servers like this one are meant to be dedicated heavy loaded application / DB servers. They're not for "simple" hosting services.

I agree, but the bandwidth on the offer, does not amount to any offers in this forum. Another example is The Planet, 1200GB for this same server is about half the price as Rackspace.
Hottweelz, I lost you. The industry depends on over-subscribing. I do not see what you are talking about?

I agree, but the bandwidth on the offer, does not amount to any offers in this forum.

These dedicated boxes are meant for bussiness computing not for hosting.

Exactly my point. The only point I was trying to bring across is the hosting industry oversells. The Planet vs. Rackspace. The Planet over-subscribes and Raskspace does not. Do not get me wrong over-subscribing is ok and it works.

Hottweelz, I lost you. The industry depends on over-subscribing. I do not see what you are talking about?

I lost you?
Sorry.
A) Only you and Rackspace "don't" oversell?
B) A dedicated server really only puts out 150gb bandwidth per 30 days?

No, I said those are the companies that I know of. I said that there are others. I do not know them though. Could you list others? And yes I agree with you on part B) of your post. Back to my point, most of the hosting world over-subscribes. Explain how you see it, because I could be wrong and will retract anything if you can prove it to me otherwise.

No, I said those are the companies that I know of. I said that there are others. I do not know them though. Could you list others? And yes I agree with you on part B) of your post. Back to my point, most of the hosting world over-subscribes. Explain how you see it, because I could be wrong and will retract anything if you can prove it to me otherwise.

I agree that A LOT oversell... but I guess I misunderstood the under exaggeration of a server only really using 150gb per month.

Well, that is one downside to forums and email, Tone can not be expressed. I am sorry if it did not sound right.

Oversell, oversubscribe or not, The Planet is gigantic in size and success and has an extremely high percentage of satisfied customers. Rackspace is beyond reality in terms of pricing and personally, I would never buy from them.

Well, that is one downside to forums and email, Tone can not be expressed. I am sorry if it did not sound right.

The problem with your post was that you were appearing real cocky with the statement "Rackspace and WMSpecialities are the non-overselling hosts of the world". :)

But yes I do believe you are right in that over-subscription is the norm.

The other problem was that people did not read what I wrote. Just as I said before, Those are the companies I "know of". See some people might of read it as "Rackspace and WMSpecialities are the only non-overselling hosts of the world", but that was not what was written. Also in my other post, I said there was nothing wrong with overselling. I have nothing over The Planet and they have made overselling work for them. Heck, the whole industry is doing well and they have happy customers, most of them. Although the idea of "really" getting 2000GB/month has no value and it is pretty much the same amount of bandwidth rackspace is offering. I was trying to make a point that Rackspace is not beyond reality. It is like the Planet's Platium service added onto a server they sell with 2,000GB of bandwidth. It is pretty much the same server. The only difference is marketing and overselling is just a marketing scheme.
Also I think another problem was that most hosts on this forum sell their hosting. So when I posted this, they did not read it fully, thought that I was trying to cut them short by selling something that most hosts do not have and then they attacked me for really no reason. I was trying to add to the conversation, not sell anything. A forum is meant for discussion, so I thought I keep the discussion going. Again, I am not undermining anyone, just adding that today some hosts are overselling, some hosts are selling what the customer gets, but it comes down to that the hosting industry is a Monopolistic Competition market and that everyone gets the same bandwidth and pretty close to the same prices. So the 150GB from Rackspace is no different from The Planet’s 2000GB. Before I worked at WebMedia Specialties, I got scammed(overselling), by a company. I did not know it though. When my boss told me we were selling 10GB of data transfer a month for $40/month, I looked a him a little awkwardly. My first impression was this company "sucks". It took me a little while to understand and my boss gave me a better explanation, than I am giving now. I would like to iterate this again, I am not trying to say that overselling is BAD and all the hosts that do it are bad. Please understand, I was just trying to make a point that I see in the industry today, call it a well educated opinion if you will.

This is the part I don't undestand still.
Why is the 2000gb per month of bandwidth so unrealistic to you.

I have over 650 customers spread across four servers. One customer, utilizes 2500gb per month alone.

They are real numbers... it' doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

Where is the report coming from? Many traffic scripts do not actually give the real usage of bandwidth. If you look at an unmetered view of a limited connection, it can better describe the real GB of transfer.

Where is the report coming from? Many traffic scripts do not actually give the real usage of bandwidth. If you look at an unmetered view of a limited connection, it can better describe the real GB of transfer.

You're saying not to trust WHM? Or similar control panel on a server?

Good Question, I am not sure. We use hardware to manage and load balance our internet and it is the most accurate I have seen.

Good Question, I am not sure. We use hardware to manage and load balance our internet and it is the most accurate I have seen.

I maintain two datacenters, 330 West St, NY, NY and College Rd, Princeton, NJ.

I've seen bandwidth and never assumed it was inaccurate.

My personal Hosting Servers, I tend to believe are accurate. Especially with one customer pulling down over 75-80gb per day.

I think the main problem is people offering unlimited reseller accounts, thats y so many people offer massive packages

I think the main problem is people offering unlimited reseller accounts, thats y so many people offer massive packages

Yes this is the biggest problem. If these kinds of accounts were banned, hosting would be much more controlled and of higher quality.

Reputable hosts should keep a record of there uptime and response time, which i am going to set up. As bad hosts will have bad marks

yes, most huge oversellers crash becuase their cpu can't take anymore of them trying to cram 1000 sites + on a 600mz cpu. (over exageration but you get the point)