Looking for: Good older Video Card

[Wojtek]

Hey there,

I need some of you gamerz to advise me on something heh

I need to upgrade my old gforce mx video card.

What I'm looking into has to have this:
- 128/256 Mb
- dual diaply (1 vga / 1 dvi)

Id like something thats a little older. No need to spend 300 on a card :)
What I need it for is to play the occasionnal game or two
but the main purpose is to output to my home theater projector using dvi

any suggestions?

Thanks

[Bruce]

6600GT is only around $130 now.

[Wojtek]

my mobo only takes agp 8x heh
need something older

[WL-Michael]

NewEgg.com - Browse it and kill two birds with one stone.

[Wojtek]

newegg is for americans :)
Ill order off ebay once i find a suitable card

any suggestions?

[WL-Michael]

ATI AIW 9200? Decent card.

[Bruce]

my mobo only takes agp 8x heh
need something older
There's an AGP variant as well.

Maybe an old ATi 97/9800pro would work as well, but I honestly wouldn't go much lower than that, especially not if you plan on playing any newer games.

[heymrdj]

I recommend the ATI 9800XT or X800GTO.

Bro recommends the Nvidia 6800GS that come out Feb. 2nd but they are over your budget starting at $250.

[Wojtek]

There's an AGP variant as well.
but its a 16x
perhaps its still compatible with 8x, but is it worth paying for something i wouldnt be be able to use fully?

[heymrdj]

No all those cards are 8x AGP. Here is the 6800GS AGP 8x for 219$. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130002

[Bruce]

All current AGP cards are 8x. There's no such thing as 16x AGP. You're confusing it with PCI-E x16.

[Wojtek]

ops, I was looking at PCI-E 16x
what a noob I feel like :p

[Wojtek]

ah crap

so I purchased this BFG 6600GT OC, only to read later on it needs a 350W minimum PS. I only have 300W.

You think the card will not run at all or it'll still run.
I dont have much stuff plugged on that power supply, a motherboard, cpu, hard disk and cdrw. No leds, no nothing nonsense. Enough juice left?


Also purchased a set of crucial Ballistix 2x512Mb ram
Cant wait to try those out in dual channel :)

[Bruce]

300w may be okay. The amps, specifically on the 12v rail, are more important than wattage.

You need at least 18A on your +12v rail, or it won't run properly, or maybe not at all.

[Wojtek]

----, http://www.antec.com/specs/sl300s_spe.html shows my +12V has 15A

but the 350W version only has 16A, so I *hope* it will work.
dont wanna go thruh the hassle of returning the card or spending extra on a psu.


btw, NCIX rules all!
ordered yesterday jan26 at 5:30pm
purolator shows today jan27 08:23am "On vehicle for delivery" :p

[Decker]

Physics 101 - W=VxA (watts = volts times amps) that and you won't get 18amp capacity from the 12volt rail, the 5volt rail yes.

Standard PC PSU is a +5volt and -5volt and a +12volt and -12 volt. The 5v+ line runs the majority of the system, older types of disk drives needed heavier 12v lines but not much else. The 5v- lines were for data conversion circuits mainly (if you see DAC or ADC then likely them).

The 12v lines are pretty much legacy now, and gfx cards should only really use 5v lines unless they have drive capabilities which may require a 12v line out (even most of them have a built in mini-SMPSU).

Boy did I just go off on one :P used to design switched mode PSU's many years ago :rolleyes2 so I'm sad and have an interest :-)

Basically you should be fine Wojtek :) don't worry about the power between a 300w and 350w - average usage is around 230w for a standard PC with all the usual accessories - I'd be more carefull loading USB ports than internal slots. :-)

Oh PS - modern PSU's will 'crowbar' (shut themselves off) if overloaded, so worst case is $30 for a PSU (most now recover after a power off rather than just die) rather than more expensive components.

[Bruce]

Physics 101 - W=VxA (watts = volts times amps) that and you won't get 18amp capacity from the 12volt rail, the 5volt rail yes.Why? 12v * 18a = 218w

My 12v rail has 28a, so 336w. Obviously it's not going to push out this power consistently (70% of maximum is generally as high as one should go), but it is the peak output and some PSUs will go even higher. Check out PC Power & Cooling's 1000w beast if you want an example. 66a (combined) on the 12v rails.


Standard PC PSU is a +5volt and -5volt and a +12volt and -12 volt. The 5v+ line runs the majority of the system, older types of disk drives needed heavier 12v lines but not much else. The 5v- lines were for data conversion circuits mainly (if you see DAC or ADC then likely them).You're also forgetting the +/- 3.3v which is used by the motherboard and RAM.

The 12v powers nearly all of the power-hungry components now including the CPU and most newer video cards.



Boy did I just go off on one :P used to design switched mode PSU's many years ago :rolleyes2 so I'm sad and have an interest :-) Perhaps "years ago" is the problem. ;)

You don't seem up-to-date with current hardware.



Oh PS - modern PSU's will 'crowbar' (shut themselves off) if overloaded, so worst case is $30 for a PSU (most now recover after a power off rather than just die) rather than more expensive components.True, overloading isn't likely to cause any damage. It just wouldn't work.

I'd be more leery of buying a $30 bargain-bin PSU than overloading one.

[Decker]

PSU rating is combined, 3.3v (only the positive rail is used at that) is onboard (ie motherboard regulated from the 5v rails), 5v powers the MB regulator circuits for all the key components like the low 1.(odd) volt supplies to the CPU etc. Almost all chipsets use a standard 5v rail with onboard SMPSU to convert as the manufacturers know more power is available from that source, and they kick it up for the mW values required.

And I didn't say I'd given it up Bruce ;) Still up to date on it mate :) Still one of the parts of what I do on a daily basis.

Agree with the bargain bin PSU bit but I'd rather go through a couple of tem than an expensive card, so always a good move to get a good quality high power PSU - after all it does run everything else.

This has always been a biggy on the electronics design front - mainly for what should be prioritised, current or future proofed. It'll never end as consumers will make the decision at the end - too expensive no sale, cheap loads of scrapped PSU's.

Go figure :/

[heymrdj]

I have a 30$ 350 watt PSU in my system (specs below). Attempted to overclock. Boom, PSU gave out, flashed my motherboard's BIOS, reset my clock, almost dmaged my WINXP beyond repair. The dang thing jumped to 13v on the "12v" rail. POS! So yesterday I bought a Seasonic S12 430 watt. 90$ but I also know the thing puts out 430 continous and 530 watts peak. So now I can overclock without my rails jumping between 11.5v and 13.2v. Hope I can get my 2.8 to 3.2 now. Wish me luck ;)

2.8GHZ P4 Northwood core C-class (800MHZ FSB)
Soyo I865PE motherboard
512MB PC3200 Ultra memory (clocked to 430 @2.7v with stability)
Ultra processor cooler (aluminum)
Western Digital 160GB HD
Seagate 30GB HD
TDK DVD+-RW
Samsung 52x CD-RW
Win XP Home Edition

[Decker]

You overclock - you take your life in your hands. That does take more power from the PSU.

Whatever you use to measure the levels on the various supplies is relative though (is it a quality meter or a budget one - as the accuracy will be relative) voltage levels do jump when power requests go down and up. Like a car battery. More demand lower voltage, less demand higher voltage but it's all meant to be as a 'fall-back' due to the way the amount of power possible to supply is done by them.

Really the spec doesn't matter till you get to a spec where you need more to support the 'basics' - yours should be okay heymrdj for what you have (350W is usually more than enough for most - it's what I use and you want to see what's hooked up)

[heymrdj]

Dude this generic POS power supply got benchmarked. Its capable of 270W continous. They ran it at 350W for 4 hours before it overheated, cuaght fire, and went bye bye. There is no such thing as a good cheap power supply. I went to a power supply calculator and it shows my system need 370W of power once I overclock it. I recommend nobody ever go below a 400 these days. Just too many requirements.

[Decker]

HeHe! As I said most 'normal' systems don't use all the power from a PSU in fact even loaded systems are using it in peaks.
But all it takes is one go at it - and bye bye.

[Decker]

Thinking about it have any of us ever had a "normal" system?

[Wojtek]

Im happy to report im writing this message from a computer equiped with a 300w psu and running the 6600gt :p

Did not try any games yet.
Ill try some tomorow and I'll report back :)

[Daniel]

Wojtek, you should be fine with an Antec psu. I think the 350w is for people with random generic power supplies.

[Brandon]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814161153
I have one of these babies, the chip is a bit older, but it runs like a charm on medium settings America's Army :)
Great bang for your buck.
I see you already bought a card, but i'm just telling people about this awesome offer :)

[Bruce]

The 6600GT gets me Medium-High settings @ 1024x768 with 4x AA on F.E.A.R.

With the 9550 it would probably be a slideshow, if it would even run.

It all depends on which games you play.

[Wojtek]

hehe, I can now play Need for speed again :p

last one I was able to play was nfs5 back in the days
thats kind of good tho, the last 3 ones sucked balls with those hummers and civics

what a huge leap jumping from gforce2 to gforce6 heh :)

[Brandon]

The 6600GT gets me Medium-High settings @ 1024x768 with 4x AA on F.E.A.R.

With the 9550 it would probably be a slideshow, if it would even run.

It all depends on which games you play.
Works great on americas army

[Daniel]

America's Army is like a 4 year old game, based on the original UnrealTournament engine... Nothing worth mentioning in terms of benchmarking videocards.

[Brandon]

Its the only game I like, so, the gfx card doesn't matter much

[Mike Shinoda]

well get the geforce 5200 video card with 128mb ram works fine [on my friend computer] planning to get one too because i need to upgrade mt geforce 2 mx 400 64mb