Illegal?

[Hypernic]

Is it illegal to host a warez forum? My friend owns one and they havn't shut him down. But they sent me an e-mail saying it was illegal.

[Yellowmc]

They cannot shut it down, they contact the host telling them to shut it down. Warez forums are obviously illegal as they distribute illegal copies of many programs.

[Hypernic]

They post links to warez. Isn't there some disclaimer I can use?

[needlehost]

Yes of course its illegal, all things related to warez are illegal, the only reason your friend hasn't been shut down is that they havn't caught him.
OFF TOPIC
what happened to pwnage host? It had a very good reputation.

[Hypernic]

My other friend said it was a dud. He got the same thing and his site is working. I don't know what to believe though.

I shut down Pwnage Host because
1) Nobody barly came back after they got their hosting
2) Many people blamed us for some problems they made.

Just too much problems.

[Johnson]

If you put a disclaimer, it is not illegal. If you don't host the files yourself, you're in the clear.

[Hypernic]

I was going to add this to my site.

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7241/disclaimersmall4pf.gif

I didn't upload any files.

[BeIIy]

Just make sure they aren't posting any serial numbers inside their posts and you should be fine.

[Johnson]

Well, you can have serial numbers posted, only if you say that all information posted is property of thier respective owners and for educational purposes only.

[Hypernic]

Sigh...I don't know what to do with it anymore.

If anyone has any ideas for a site I should start up tell me.

[Webdude]

If you put a disclaimer, it is not illegal. If you don't host the files yourself, you're in the clear.

Do you think a disclaimer on a kiddie porn forum would protect you? It is still illegal. Now, most companies wont attempt to shut down a warez forum if they arent hosting the warez themselves. They will simply use that forum as one of their tools so they can find all the places warez is being hosted, and have THEM shut down.

But yes, linking to warez is illegal. A disclaimer is a claim against something that is NOT illegal.... for example, "this forum holds no responsibility if you are offended by people who swear a lot". Since linking to and distributing warez is illegal, no disclaimer can protect you.

By your reasoning, I could post a disclaimer in a newspaper before I kill someone, or host child porn or Federal secrets on my site so long as I put a disclaimer on my entrance page. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that aint so Bubba! Even if a disclaimer "could" protect you in some way, your disclaimer isnt legally registered with a federal institution, whereas the terms of use of the software you link to does. Therefore, their terms of use would legally over-ride your disclaimer.

And if you ask me if I have ever used warez, I would neither say yay or nay, I can plead the 5th :D

If I did use warez, I would know it, and everything about it is completely illegal. By no means would I attempt to fool myself into thinking I have some right to do so, or that a few disclamation words in html on a hard drive would protect me from legal prosecution. It will protect you from neither criminal nor civil prosecution, or lawsuit.

In the end, providing access to warez is illegal. Linking to them is providing access.

[Webdude]

Well, you can have serial numbers posted, only if you say that all information posted is property of thier respective owners and for educational purposes only.

cough*cough*bullsh|t*cough*cough

[Johnson]

By your reasoning, I could post a disclaimer in a newspaper before I kill someone, or host child porn or Federal secrets on my site

Umm...no. Hosting the files compared to just linking to them...or killing someone...is completely different. By your logic, I can't put a link to a serial website on my site?

I'm too tired to argue, can you just tell me what you base your theory on.

[BeIIy]

What Matters: It is illegal (assistance infringement), but you most likely won't have charges brought against you unless you are hosting the files.

[stuffradio]

Ok, let me clear this whole discussion in ONE post.

Yes, a Torrent Site you are allowed. It is completley legal. You do and should put a disclaimer saying you are not responsible for any content being posted if it is illegal. Also put in the disclaimer that if they send you an email at say... warez@domainname.com with the files you want removed you will do so. Torrent sites don't host any files themselves. They are just links to files. So if you are saying any kind of torrent is illegal you are dead wrong. There is the exception of stuff you own. You are allowed to upload and share your own content that you made. If you get nailed for that you can probably just sue them and win because they have no right to sue you for sharing something you did. For example in Canada, you ARE allowed to download things like Music, and TV Shows.. but things like Movies and programs and such is illegal.

Hope this post helped clear things up :)

[sep]

If your server is located somewhere in middle east where there is no copyright law, you are not breaking any laws, considering that copyright law is considered a US law and that US has no ifluence in middle-east(exept Iraq) you are doing something that is 100% legal. However if you live in US or US influenced countries you might be facing a lawsuit.

PS. don't quote me on this, im no expert.

[Johnson]

That's like online poker. Online poker is illegal in the US, but for example, www.pokerstars.com is located in Costa Rico I believe.

[Webdude]

And... can we say "still wrong"? The root DNS of the internet is still U.S. controlled. China was having a hissy about this a while back.

A ban of "just" the server hosting the site isnt all that would happen. A ban of the entire IP blocks of the DC hosting the site could happen. If a DC is in another country, I'd bet a big portion of their customers are in the U.S. How long do you think the DC would allow that site, or even the host that owns the server, to hang around?

That's what "could" happen. This has happened to a few major child porn rings, though I dont know of it ever being done to a warez site. Dont ever think you can do whatever you want, and just because the server is outside the U.S. that you are untouchable. If your server is outside the U.S but YOU are inside the U.S. Guess what, you're not very untouchable by U.S. law now are you?

[Johnson]

I read an article about online poker and it being illegal in US etc. and, if you're supposedly right, why hasn't anyone cracked down on all the poker sites on tv?

[Hypernic]

Well I am not hosting child pornography or hosting illegal files. Just linking to it.

[Kommercial]

Well I am not hosting child pornography or hosting illegal files. Just linking to it.

I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, if I were to leave a porn link in a child forum, the most I would get is banned from the forum. It's not my problem they clicked the link.


And... can we say "still wrong"? The root DNS of the internet is still U.S. controlled. China was having a hissy about this a while back.

A ban of "just" the server hosting the site isnt all that would happen. A ban of the entire IP blocks of the DC hosting the site could happen. If a DC is in another country, I'd bet a big portion of their customers are in the U.S. How long do you think the DC would allow that site, or even the host that owns the server, to hang around?

That's what "could" happen. This has happened to a few major child porn rings, though I dont know of it ever being done to a warez site. Dont ever think you can do whatever you want, and just because the server is outside the U.S. that you are untouchable. If your server is outside the U.S but YOU are inside the U.S. Guess what, you're not very untouchable by U.S. law now are you?

That's not true. The Pirate Bay (ThePirateBay.org) is a torrent site whose had many, many different warnings for linking torrents, and to this day, nothing has been done, simply because the server is in Finland or something, as to where there are no copyright laws.

[Canuckkev]

Oh GOD! Some of the logic presented here is hilarious!

Anyways, guys, listen to Webdude.

My summary:

Linking to illegal sites/files is still illegal. To follow the analogy presented...telling someone where to go download child porn is still illegal.

A disclaimer such as those mentioned are WORTHLESS.

If your server is not in the US, you aren't automatically immune. Of course, there may be more difficulties involved in shutting you down, but it doesn't mean it can't happen.

There isn't always room for common sense in the law, but it applies here. If YOU find the legality of something in question, there is no DOUBT that a lawyer can make a case.

[ingfina]

Is it illegal to host a warez forum? My friend owns one and they havn't shut him down. But they sent me an e-mail saying it was illegal.
Hey, test it it yourself: tell your friends host about it, if he is the host then the datacenter. Sit back and watch...

[ksb]

^ I agree

Anything that is copyrighted is illegal to share, serial numbers I think would be illegal too because its obvious what users would do with serial codes. Why else would they need them?

The controversy really begins when you start talking about nationalities and their separate laws that govern things like that (ie: USA - FCC)

[Webdude]

http://www.bsa.org/resources/upload/Vehicles-for-Theft-Forms-of-Internet-Software-Piracy.pdf

Ok, you say remote linking isnt illegal. This form shows the types of piracy. It's titled::

"Vehicles for Theft: Forms of Intent Software Piracy"

Review it, scroll to last page, and read about remote linking...

For example, your friend goes in a house and kills someone. You are sitting in the car behind the wheel. You find yourself charged with accessory to murder. Same with linking. Maybe you arent hosting warez, but you are providing a delivery system for others to download it. Same as with the murder scenario.

[coolguyz]

Incidentally, not many would be aware of is that Disclaimers protect you from nothing.
As a host you are always responsible for actions of your hosted accounts, only escape is that you may claim not to monitor activities but people are clever. They don't approach sits, they approach hosts and in that case, wow! you are clueless. You can't defend any such site. You have to shut it down or shut yourselves down.

Remote linking or whatever, evenif its not in a forum, still any method used to directly or indirectly promote warez is DEEMED ILLEGAL.

Yes, evenif they don't post serials in forum, or files on same host, but if your forum is a place to promote or spread piracy, it is illegal, put whatever notice you may.

Encouraging crime is as punishable as person committing crime.

Here is the problem, few kiddie site owners seem to have developed notion that disclaimers will save their a** but no, it won't. If their creations in a way help to disseminate porn, warez, piracy, they are into the net themselves.

As a host with knowledge of such a site, you are guilty of promoting warez, so yeah you'll be in trouble with whatever notice you put.

[SuperHumanly]

Here's some info for you guys.

(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications. - A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider's transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections, if -

(1) the transmission of the material was initiated by or at the direction of a person other than the service provider;

(2) the transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out through an automatic technical process without selection of the material by the service provider;

(3) the service provider does not select the recipients of the material except as an automatic response to the request of another person;

(4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and

(5) the material is transmitted through the system or network without modification of its content.

Source: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512

[James]

Interesting topic.

I'd like to throw in a new comparison.

Limewire, Kazaa, Edonkey.. distribute copyrighted material. Effectively warez.

Warez forums, distribute copyrighted material. Effectively warez.

We're not shutting down limewire are we?

[Canuckkev]

Here's some info for you guys.

(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications. - A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider's transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections, if -

(1) the transmission of the material was initiated by or at the direction of a person other than the service provider;

(2) the transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out through an automatic technical process without selection of the material by the service provider;

(3) the service provider does not select the recipients of the material except as an automatic response to the request of another person;

(4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and

(5) the material is transmitted through the system or network without modification of its content.

Source: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512

You missed posting the part where "service providers" is defined. I believe that refers to "Internet Service Providers", making it irrelevant to the discussion of a "warez forum". If I am wrong, please do tell.

[Webdude]

Interesting topic.

I'd like to throw in a new comparison.

Limewire, Kazaa, Edonkey.. distribute copyrighted material. Effectively warez.

Warez forums, distribute copyrighted material. Effectively warez.

We're not shutting down limewire are we?

It's a lot easier to shut down an individual's warez forum than it is to shut down a network of individual computers.

[James]

It's a lot easier to shut down an individual's warez forum than it is to shut down a network of individual computers.

Precisely.

I think this is where the problems lie in this world.

Only problems which are convienient to tackle, are dealt with.

Warez sites, instead of P2P sharing networks.

Iraq, instead of North Korea.

[Canuckkev]

I think this is where the problems lie in this world.

People make absolutely stupid analogies.