Looking for Ad Network Review/Discussion Sites...

[Matt]

Greetings,

I'm looking to find Advertising Network review sites, as well as sites with open discussions regarding people's experiences with the various Ad Networks, good or bad. There seems to be a lack of these types of sites, which if available would serve the community well.

Farewell,

[LastActionHero]

Try geekvillage.com's forums. A very good place IMHO and cashpile.com

[Matt]

Greetings,

Thanks for the response. I've checked out GeekVillage.com a few times, but it seems they're heavily into blocking anything that looks like a complaint against an Advertising Networks. At the very least, I've read a few of their threads which seem to state 1 Complaint, 1 Ad Network Response is enough and they won't let either party continue it further.

I'll check out Cashpile.com. Thanks!

Farewell,

[LastActionHero]

Well that's the only way mudslanging can be prevented at geekvillage.com

[Matt]

Greetings,

The problem with a GeekVillage.com policy is legitimate claims which seem like "attacks" against Ad Networks have their discussions locked and the policies changed to prevent this, if the policy doesn't already forbid it. Granted, that's not a problem in itself, and well within the forum operator's right, but if these claims are legitimate, more often than not, the Advertising Network is not willing to discuss or resolve the issue privately. Even if they do, I don't expect any ill-practicing Ad Network to willingly resolve any issues privately.

This is the main reason in looking for forums like this. I would like an open, honest site with real reviews and real interaction to get the broader idea of networks, these days. The site in my signature below(AdSense.org) is the result of this desire: An open, frank review and discussion forum for all entities in the Online Advertising Market.

As for Cashpile, it seems to deal only with Afiiliate programs like Commission Junction. I'll see if there's anything I've missed, but it's not exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

Farewell,

[WZS]

I would recommend:

http://www.webmasterads.com

[Matt]

Greetings,

WZS: Is there something wrong with that site? Whenever I click through on Ad Networks->Pay Per Impression (or any of the others), I get redirected to the main page. All the other subcategories' links seem to do the same thing. There also does not seem to be an Discussion Forums?

Farewell,

[WZS]

Hmm..sounds weird. What browser are you using. The site was texsted with IE 4.0, 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 and also the latest Netscape version.

There aren't any forums since there isn't any point having them when there aren't more visitors than currently. I think you know how this is when you look at your own site...

[Matt]

Greetings,

Ahh, there might be a browser conflict, as I'm using the Mozilla(.org) browser. I'll try it with another browser.

As for forums, I feel they're an integral part of any site which hopes to attract visitors consistently, without having constantly updated material. Still, I understand your reasoning. It's simply one of the big pluses I'm looking for.

Farewell,

[sHaWn]

http://www.adbility.com

[Matt]

Greetings,

Shawn: Thanks for the suggestion. I regularly check Mark Welch's comments and reviews on Adbility.com when going with a new Ad Network, and I respect his views more than most in this industry. Unfortunately, user interactions/reviews and forums are lacking there, so you're only getting the view of one man.

Farewell,

[Ahmed]

Cough cough.

THere is my sig ;-)

And no one mentioned ClickQuick.com and Net-Ads.com ... two of the best imo

[LastActionHero]

Originally posted by Ahmed
Cough cough.

THere is my sig ;-)

And no one mentioned ClickQuick.com and Net-Ads.com ... two of the best imo

Matt is looking for forums where dicussions about networks are done freely without undue moderation and not ad network review sites :)

[Ahmed]

Originally posted by Matt
Greetings,

I'm looking to find Advertising Network review sites, as well as sites with open discussions regarding people's experiences with the various Ad Networks, good or bad.
Farewell,

You guys focused on his second part, not his first

:D :bandit2:

[Matt]

Greetings,

Yes, I'm looking for both. Preferably, however, I'm looking for sites where review _and_ user interaction in discussion forums is held. None of the suggested sites seem to contain both. Far less seem ot have forums.

ClickQuick.com looks very good, though.

Farewell,

[NC_TOM]

One big problem with ClickQuick is, they do not update the sponsor ratings and reviews too often. The site appears to be updated less than 10 times per year by the webmaster, and many newer sponsors are not listed. Additionally, many of the ratings are outdated.

Other than those two drawbacks, it's the best ad network review/discussion site.

[Ahmed]

Well Matt ... it is a sense of paradox

You cannot get the forum moving without any hits, and you cant get the hits without the forum moving along.

At least ... that is the reason why there is no forum on me site =0.

Plus, many other sites use places such as this, GeekVillage, GetHighForums and tehrefore believe that a forum on their own site is 'needed'

[WZS]

Remember that users can rate and add their own reviews for all reviews as well on Webmaster Ads.

I don't think there currently is a need for another forum since we already have Get (High) Traffic and Sitepoint but if I have enough users I will add a forum.

[Czar]

Originally posted by Ahmed
Cough cough.

THere is my sig ;-)

And no one mentioned ClickQuick.com and Net-Ads.com ... two of the best imo

Thanks for the mention, Ahmed. :)

Matt, Mark Welch sold Adbility over a year ago as a result of legal pressure, conflicts of interest and other factors (he upset more than his fair share of major industry players - and often unfairly so). Thus, you're not getting his views when you visit Adbility these days.

Net-Ads doesn't feature a forum, but it does feature reviews of the best (and a few of the worst) online ad networks and affiliate programs. I've had to remove a few reviews due to legal threats or complaints, so if there are any blaring omissions in my reporting, that's likely the reason. Nevertheless, I continue to report on untrustworthy programs where possible, and update the site several times a day.

Geek/Talk's moderators and admin attempt to serve both publishers and affiliate managers/ad network execs on a fair and equitable basis. We've found that the single complaint:response procedure is best for serving this purpose without allowing threads to degenerate into flame wars or excessively defensive and self-serving discussions - which are better suited to private email correspondence. The complaint procedure is designed to serve individual conflicts, and no other threads are subject to that high level of restriction, so you are free to request evaluations of networks or to express your views/experiences within general threads.

[Matt]

Greetings,

Czar: Well, that's certainly news. Do you have any idea where Mark Welch is now? What a shame...

I agree forum moderators and owners must keep their discussions in the manner they wish, and they are fully within their rights to prohibit extensive discussions on a single subject. The problem is, the old arguement "this should be taken to email" is not valid. In all reality, the only pressure on a fraudulent Ad Network to defend and explain its actions, if it truely has committed fraud or deception, is the act of detailing the situation in public and leaving it up to them to explain themselves. More often than not, a guilty party will not respond via email, and really, why should they? They're gotten away with their crime and they have no need to answer emails because there's no incentive. However, when placed in a public forum(and when done with respect), an guilty party is pressured to defend their integrity.

I would hope there would still be those sites that would stand up for the defenceless and let their views be heard.

Farewell,

[Czar]

Mark Welch is now involved in consultancy work for online companies, and was - until last month according to his resume/bio - the affiliater manager for MovieGoods.com. For more info:
http://www.markwelch.com/

I agree with you entirely regarding the value of public forums, and there are several high profile forums that are not moderated as tightly as Geek/Talk (and these are often very valuable resources in their own right). You'll note after a while, however, that the problem with these is that they foster an environment that favors publishers far more than affiliate managers. As a result, although there are several harsh (and perhaps honest) complaints posted, they rarely (if ever) elicit responses from representatives of the accused firm, since no protection is afforded to the outnumbered member. You just need to look at the severe, and largely unjust, beatings that have been dished out to the likes of SI, WebsiteSponsors.com and others right here for evidence of that.

Again, Geek/Talk invites criticisms of aspects of online ad firms' behaviour, policies and track records. In fact, providing publishers with access to honest info of that type is a central reason for its existence. When individual one-on-one complaints are filed, though, you'd be hard-pressed to find an environment that is more conducive to both resolving disputes, or highlighting the weaknesses in one party's arguments than under G/T's complaint procedure. I'm confident that an observant publisher would be able to extract enough of a gist of the dispute and its underlying issues from reading between the lines within these situations. Web publishers are a pretty smart bunch of people, after all. :D

<edited to correct typo>

[Matt]

Greetings,

I wholeheartedly agree that most threads involving a disgruntled Publisher, and an accused Advertising Network or Advertising, tend to follow an uninvestigated, mudslinging manner. That's largely the reason that, while AdSense.org provides an open, frank, uncensored forum, what I call "Claim Portfolios" are provided as a service for the Plaintiff. These portfolios contain the information, properly laid out, with evidence, that should have been organized correctly to begin with, before the Plaintiff decided to post to an open forum complaining about a service.

I believe this unique feature is something that a lot of Ad Review and Discussion sites could benefit from. Simply the effort involved in creating a portfolio would discourage all but the most nefarious cheaters. If not that, then the volume and quality of evidence required to present case in a manner that visitors will take serious, is another deterrent to most people who really don't have a case. The important thing about this, however, is the fact that these dealings be out in the open, unfettered by webmasters who don't want to deal with it and in a location that allow equal voice to all parties involved.

At any rate, I still hope to find an Ad Review / Discussion site, that would allow just plain, open speaking about these problems.

Farewell,

[Ahmed]

The problem as I see it is how 'open' can a site get?

If we dont do any moderation, then false statements and accusations could go flying across the discussion. If there is strict moderation, then people start complaining about censorship.

I dont believe that a level of moderation can be found to keep the average user, the complainee, and the target of the complaint all happy

:confused2

[WZS]

Well, I can implement pretty much anything very fast into Webmaster Ads so if you have any further suggestions other than the rating system and the ability to submit reviews I'm listening :)

[Matt]

Greetings,

As I see it, and from my own experiences, forum owners run their forums on a specific topic. Here, it is largely the topic of free hosting. While there are subcategories, such as Ad Revenue, the owner most likely intends for this to be used as the sharing of new programs and whether or not someone recommends one program. I doubt even arguements between webmasters over revenue disputes would be a banned subject. It's gets iffy, however, when the party running the program gets involved. Many times, that party may receive word of the discussion and get involved that way, or simply request the forum operator to deal with the situation. The forum operator will, naturally, comply with this request, because it's usually formed in the fashion of a threat.

A dedicated site and forum, however, to the open dissemination of these types of discussions could, in fact, survive and prosper. Discussions, as Ahmed said, could get out of control. At this point, the forum operator should request each party to provide hard evidence(as is the case with Claim Portfolios at AdSense.org) or cease the conversation.

In this manner, I believe such a system could operate fairly and equally to all parties. It is a shame no site, currently in operation, has the fortitude to support a project like this.

Farewell,

[}:8) Supermoo]

Originally posted by Matt
As I see it, and from my own experiences, forum owners run their forums on a specific topic. Here, it is largely the topic of free hosting. While there are subcategories, such as Ad Revenue, the owner most likely intends for this to be used as the sharing of new programs and whether or not someone recommends one program. I doubt even arguements between webmasters over revenue disputes would be a banned subject. It's gets iffy, however, when the party running the program gets involved. Many times, that party may receive word of the discussion and get involved that way, or simply request the forum operator to deal with the situation. The forum operator will, naturally, comply with this request, because it's usually formed in the fashion of a threat.

Greetings Matt, welcome to the forums.

I would greatley appreciate evidence to your claims above and in particular, of this claim;

The forum operator will, naturally, comply with this request, because it's usually formed in the fashion of a threat.

I ask this as FreeWebSpace.Net has a largley 'open' forum where affiliates and advertisers are treated equally. Personal threats are not allowed from either party.

Here is an example of a complaint and how both parties are treated equally. http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8413

Thankyou,

[Matt]

Greetings,

I apologize for the tardiness of this reply. I have been unable to get to the forums for a while.

"The forum operator will, naturally, comply with this request, because it's usually formed in the fashion of a threat."

This statement was made with the experience of a few years running a Free Web Host as well as Support Forums(which included general discussions, as Freewebspace.net has). I have often found that the disgruntled parties complaining of posts or web sites will email(or even physically mail) legal papers threatening action against the carrier, if the carrier does not deal with the situation(which usually entails simply removing the offending content).

Do not take my words as targetted to any specific forum.

Generally speaking, I find the freedom to discuss these situations--in an extended fasion--are usually short lived and cut off before any kind of resolution can be resolved. It is this reason that I look for a place to discuss the issues, and the reason behind AdSense.org. Simply a practical place to go into detail about the problems or events.

If any of you recall the thread that was locked here, due to a Standard Internet, Corp. employee releasing financial information about one the forum users; I would continue speaking on the matter with the employee, but I respect Peo's sanity and suspension of anger more than I wish to post yet another anti-SI post. I would very much prefer a home for these discussions were it was perfectly acceptable.

Supermoo: The link you posted is a good example of what the admins and Peo must deal with to provide equal opportunity. It is a shame Robert has not returned to continue the conversation.

Farewell,

[Cheap Bastard]

actually, this is one of the most open forums i've found. It's so open, I've even submitted a couple of posts (ads that were against the posting policies) to moderators and a week later i checked they were still there...

[}:8) Supermoo]

Originally posted by Matt
If any of you recall the thread that was locked here, due to a Standard Internet, Corp. employee releasing financial information about one the forum users; I would continue speaking on the matter with the employee, but I respect Peo's sanity and suspension of anger more than I wish to post yet another anti-SI post. I would very much prefer a home for these discussions were it was perfectly acceptable.

The thread in question, "Pop-Unders ?", that you took part in was removed by the forum's administrator;


"Ok, after a couple of hours investigating all of this, I've decided not to bring this thread back to the forum. We will save the thread in the moderators only Thrown Threads forum for future reference of this abuse. "

If you wish to continue talking on the matter with the employee (as you stated) you can do so by contacting them directly, not through this forum. They were identified in the following thread (http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8559).

As you most likley understand when discussing financial matters it is probaly not the best place to talk about them in a public forum. I believe this is one of the main reasons the thread in question was closed.

Finally, to clarify you;

due to a Standard Internet, Corp. employee releasing financial information about one the forum users;
Financial information was released about you, and another member of the forums... please notify that you were part of this in future refrence to the thread.

Thankyou,

[Matt]

Greetings,

Supermoo: Please don't make this into something bigger than it really is. I am completely satisfied with how things turned out. I appreciate the administrator's, and Peo's, astonishingly quick effort to lock the thread after my financial information was posted.

The only reason I bring up this was to make the point that I would not bring it up again, as well as to suggest that forums like this are not an appropriate place to discuss things of this nature; and hence my ideas of a home for this discussion type.

Regarding contacting the person in question directly: As I've stated earlier, I've found that the other party, whoever that may be(not necessarily SI), do not want to discuss anything, as they already have what they want, or are completely satisfied with the situation going no further. I've also said, previously in this thread, that publically accessible locations provide about the only incentive for these companies to defend themselves.

I simply wish a place where, if the one party doesn't mind releasing their private information, each entity should be able to discuss their situation freely. I understand Freewebspace.net is not the place to do this. This is also why I have refrained from trying to discuss further with the person who revealed financial information in the thread.

To bring it all around, this was the intent of startnig this thread. To discover a site which provided reviews and wide-open discussion of these subjects, as they are not appropriate elsewhere.

Farewell,

[}:8) Supermoo]

I wish to apologise,
once again I was under the impression that you were directly attacking this forum. I am sorry for this mis-understanding and hope that you are eventually able to find a place where you can openly discuss these matters.

Thankyou,

[Matt]

Greetings,

Supermoo: Not a problem. I guess this thread certainly would look like an attack just after the last thread that was locked. :)

Farewell,