America admits suspects died in interrogations

**Toefur** · April 6th, 2003, 08:59

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=384604

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease" while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a "blunt force injury".

And Hussein is an evil man that tortures people.

**conkermaniac** · April 6th, 2003, 09:40

I'm copying this from a post on another forum.

1953: US overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran; US installs Shah as dictator

1954: US overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala; 200,000 civilians killed

1961: US assists in the overthrow and assassination of democratically-elected Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba, installing Col. Joseph Sese Seko Mobutu as leader of the nation. Mobutu drags the fragile economy of Zaïre into the dirt, while becoming one of the richest men alive.

1963: US backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in South East Asia

September 11, 1973: US stages coup in Chile; Democratically-elected president Salvador Allende assassinated; Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed; 5000 Chileans murdered

1977: US backs military rulers of El Salvador; 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed

1980's: US trains Osama bin Laden and Mujahideen to kill Soviets; CIA gives them 3 billion

1981: Reagen administration trains and funds 'Contras'; 30,000 Nicaraguans die

1982: US provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manul Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington; US invades Panama and removes Noriega; 3000 Panamanian civilian casualties

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from US

1991: US enters Iraq; Bush reinstates dictator in Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs 'weapons factory' in Sudan; factory turns out to be making aspirin

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis; UN estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions

2000-01: US gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid"

2001-02-03: US declares 'war on terror', sacks Afghanistan, attacks Iraq, tells their armed forces 'you are the world's hope for peace'

**CareBear** · April 6th, 2003, 10:04

The US has been using torture to get the people held after 911 to talk or exporting them to countries known to use torture as an interrogation tool. It involves in part around sleep/food deprivation and intimidation.
Voices have been going up about loosening the circumstances in which torture could be legally used to get people to talk.. currently it's not allowed under any circumstance whatsoever.

**Webdude** · April 6th, 2003, 12:24

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in South East Asia

Oh now that is serious bullcrap. How about you show some proof instead of simply copying from a website.

**AngelaAndJewel** · April 6th, 2003, 21:24

Why are so many of you anti-american. Pardon my harshness but so what if two died in Kabul if it prevents another 3000 as in the World Trade Center. There are consequences for being involved and besides they are probably considered martyrs now anyway. I bet their family's have been given money by some other homicidal creep.

**CareBear** · April 6th, 2003, 21:55

Originally posted by AngelaAndJewel
Why are so many of you anti-american. Pardon my harshness but so what if two died in Kabul if it prevents another 3000 as in the World Trade Center. There are consequences for being involved and besides they are probably considered martyrs now anyway. I bet their family's have been given money by some other homicidal creep.

It's not going to prevent any terrorist attacks, it's only going to trigger new ones or did you miss the newsbit where they reported on people from other countries hurrying to Iraq to kamikaze on allied troops?
Either way just because someone somewhere mistreats and kills people doesn't mean the US can do the same to their prisoners and claim it's "ok". Torture and abuse are wrong. There is good reason as to why torture is prohibited under any circumstance. If you allow it for one specific group then it isn't much of a stretch anymore to extend it to another and then yet another group and then we're all back to medieval times.

**Robert** · April 6th, 2003, 22:07

I'm an American. I was born in Vicenza, Italy on a United States Army. I understand your views, but why are so many against the United States?

As you all say "Saddam may be bad, but not all people from Iraq". Same goes for us, President Bush may have his opinions, but not all of us.

I support the War. And many of you may disagree, but I truely feel that this is for the better for everything.

**Canuckkev** · April 6th, 2003, 23:03

Well...I think that's pretty inhumane, some of the treatment subjected to the prisoners, according to that article. It's unfortunate that it is necessary...

**netnexus** · April 6th, 2003, 23:21

---- the us. ---- george bush.

**Webdude** · April 7th, 2003, 07:56

Originally posted by CareBear
It's not going to prevent any terrorist attacks, it's only going to trigger new ones or did you miss the newsbit where they reported on people from other countries hurrying to Iraq to kamikaze on allied troops?

Yeah I heard about them, but no one has seen them. Where ARE all these "kamikazes" running to defend Iraq?

I also find it very interesting that all terrorist attacks against the U.S. have stopped. That's proof enough for me that what we're doing is working. I'm betting that a lot of terrorist organizations have found themselves getting the boot out of whatever countries they were being given refuge in after these countries were given proof we wouldnt hesitate to go after them.

So I guess Osama has a lot more terrorist company in those caves now. I'm sure the best of their minds are trying to figure out how to make bombs out of sand and rock

**Jan** · April 7th, 2003, 08:04

Originally posted by Webdude
Yeah I heard about them, but no one has seen them. Where ARE all these "kamikazes" running to defend Iraq?

I posted a link somewhere here

found it http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...E25777,00.html

**AngelaAndJewel** · April 7th, 2003, 09:38

Iraq has also claimed that their country was not occupied all the way up until the coalition troops were in Baghdad.
Now the Iraqi citizens are suposedly rising up and killing the Fedayeem.
Don't think that we haven't already stopped terrorist attacks here in the U.S. just because it hasn't been on the news. Do you think our government wants to advertise "Hey look we thwarted the terrorist plan "over Here" when they need to keep things quiet in order to stop more and catch more of the terrorist that are still scattered throughout the world.
There are several countries that have caught terrorist right along with the U.S.
As far as mistreating prisoners. Have you seen the news about what the Iraqi's are doing? How about Jessica Lynch? What about the dismembered bodies that have been identified as American troops? The proof stares you right in the face yet you are unwilling to open your eyesand focus.

**Toefur** · April 7th, 2003, 10:10

Originally posted by AngelaAndJewel
As far as mistreating prisoners. Have you seen the news about what the Iraqi's are doing?

I haven't actually, perhaps you would like to provide a news source.

Originally posted by AngelaAndJewel
How about Jessica Lynch?

What about her? The only report I read was a BBC one that mentioned when Muhammed found her in the hospital and she was being 'slapped'.

Originally posted by AngelaAndJewel
What about the dismembered bodies that have been identified as American troops?

What about them?

The proof stares you right in the face yet you are unwilling to open your eyesand focus. [/B][/QUOTE]

You seem to have missed out on the entire point here.

If America is trying to take a moral high-ground here, it is contradictory to condemn Iraqi treatment of prisoners, whilst at the same time America is, at other areas in the world, torturing prisoners without trial or access to lawyers to such a degree in which they DIE.

They are torturing people to death. The United States is doing this.

You can't condemn one, and not the other, for the same action.

Either Iraq isn't allowed to do it, and neither is America.

OR

America IS allowed to do it, and so is Iraq.

Obviously from what you seem to be saying, though, is that if Iraqi atrocities justify American atrocities in an unrelated event then firstly there is nothing wrong with it and should be allowed the world over, and secondly that American atrocities in an unrelated event justify Iraqi atrocities.

International law cannot have double standards.

**Toefur** · April 7th, 2003, 10:12

Originally posted by CareBear

Voices have been going up about loosening the circumstances in which torture could be legally used to get people to talk.. currently it's not allowed under any circumstance whatsoever.

And yet the US administration has admitted that it is torturing people, and to an extent which renders some victims of the torture dead.