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Anti-Poverty Group
- Thread starter xd3vilx
- Start date
There used to be a good one that planned to open... www.johnedwards.com but no one ever caught on to his idea. 
I don't trust those places. I mean how do they find the poor? Do they go through people's bank accounts or something? And how come we are always hearing that they need to raise funds, yet we do not hear anything about those funds being put into use? And why is it that people who run these type of groups are always in outstanding financial status?
kabatak
New Member
try http://one.org/
Well, maybe you've never met anyone who's worked with the poor. For instance, the Salvation Army doesn't overly rant on and on about their community work, they just get ahead and do it - all very "low-key". The Smith Family, Anglicare also are quite low-key in their activities, not drawing attention to all the work they do (after all, those in poverty still deserve privacy and respect). There are some members of my Church who have committed a lot of their life specifically to helping the poor here in Canberra. One couple, for instance, had been taking in homeless youths they found on the streets to live in their home for many, many years. As far as I'm aware they never solicited money from anyone to assist them to do this.
Some who do solicit fundraising are Camp Quality - but then knowing people involved in this I also know what they're doing and of course I also know some of them are volunteers and some are paid a salary - and in the case of salary they work full time for the organization, and anyone who thinks full time community work should be unpaid is deluded - you may as well claim there shouldn't be any community work! What would you rather - exploiting the dole??
I find your comments to be offensive, rude, and ignorant. :mad2:
The 'big' charities all seem to have money to pay for directors & HR departments (work that one out) I agree with Mek, the S.A. is probably the one I would trust the most for any involvement you want to have in that particular area.
Having been one myself/helped others/fighting not to be there again (as in being in poverty - the real poverty not just having to forgo one more faberge egg this week), that would actually be my first choice depending on what your after from it.
Tried to start a site to help with that in the UK a couple of years ago and got no real interest, so be prepared for that too - poverty scares people, they don't like to admit it exists.
Good luck with whatever your doing
In sep's (no way I'm calling you by your new username) defence he is quite right - the ones you hear about are always having details presented by smartly dressed well fed individuals, not someone you can't get closer than 10 feet to as they have no home or facilities for personal hygene.
So actually a big thumbs up today for the Salvation Army (only in a non-religious fashion, and sometimes the music sucks - pity they don't get appreciated more to be honest)
Having been one myself/helped others/fighting not to be there again (as in being in poverty - the real poverty not just having to forgo one more faberge egg this week), that would actually be my first choice depending on what your after from it.
Tried to start a site to help with that in the UK a couple of years ago and got no real interest, so be prepared for that too - poverty scares people, they don't like to admit it exists.
Good luck with whatever your doing
In sep's (no way I'm calling you by your new username) defence he is quite right - the ones you hear about are always having details presented by smartly dressed well fed individuals, not someone you can't get closer than 10 feet to as they have no home or facilities for personal hygene.
So actually a big thumbs up today for the Salvation Army
(only in a non-religious fashion, and sometimes the music sucks - pity they don't get appreciated more to be honest)
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Unfortunately governments have 'ways' to ensure they get their cut, so that only leaves giving directly.
Best way I found for that is going to a cash and carry (this is UK only as far as I know), and buying nil rated (for VAT) foods (not zero rated that's different apparently - and does get taxed) and handing them over, that's the only way I know to give without it being pounced on. Probably holds for other nil rated goods too.
@ Meksilon
Salvation Army: Sexual assault on children. Their Story. News Report.
Smith Family: Founded by business men. Has over 500 paid employees. That's an enterprise right there. Where does the money come from to pay for the staff?
Anglicare: Church backing. Churches have priests. And what are priests well-known for these days? That's right! Sexual abuse of little kids. And don't try to pull that different church crap with me, they all believe in Jesus. (Except churches with commercial interest)
I'm sorry to say this, but you sir are the ignorant one. Based on your post I can assume that you will believe whatever you hear from the media and your view of the world is everyone standing in a circle, holding hands and singing songs.
People these days are crooks. It's pretty much every man for himself. If your vision of the world was true, then we would not have poverty in the first place to begin with, and scamming people would not be possible by being masked as charity.
Furthermore, I am not a communist, so I don't believe people who have no education or are too lazy to get a job should have the same financial status as me. I work my --- off day and night, so I can pay my bills, why shouldn't they?
P.S. I'm not going to read this thread anymore. It is simply stupid.
Salvation Army: Sexual assault on children. Their Story. News Report.
Smith Family: Founded by business men. Has over 500 paid employees. That's an enterprise right there. Where does the money come from to pay for the staff?
Anglicare: Church backing. Churches have priests. And what are priests well-known for these days? That's right! Sexual abuse of little kids. And don't try to pull that different church crap with me, they all believe in Jesus. (Except churches with commercial interest)
I'm sorry to say this, but you sir are the ignorant one. Based on your post I can assume that you will believe whatever you hear from the media and your view of the world is everyone standing in a circle, holding hands and singing songs.
People these days are crooks. It's pretty much every man for himself. If your vision of the world was true, then we would not have poverty in the first place to begin with, and scamming people would not be possible by being masked as charity.
Furthermore, I am not a communist, so I don't believe people who have no education or are too lazy to get a job should have the same financial status as me. I work my --- off day and night, so I can pay my bills, why shouldn't they?
P.S. I'm not going to read this thread anymore. It is simply stupid.
-NEG rep. :mad2: And I see doing that removed a bar from your reputation - Good.
If they didn't pay their staff then all 500 paid employees would be taking money from Centrelink - is that what you want? Think before you say something stupid. The fact that they pay their full time employees is a good thing because it means they are not exploiting government welfare.
I'm not even going to justify that by clicking the link. Sexual assault happens? WOW you are so very well informed aren't you? Ever met any children that have been sexually assaulted? There are 4 such children who go to my Church. They go with their legal guardians who are Christians because their parent's (and specifically their mother's) group of friends is a bunch of paedophiles. Those non-Christians are the real enemy to children, and you're deliberately distorting the truth by selectively quoting facts out of context.
Do you know anyone who works with or has worked with sexually abused children? If so please tell me how many are non-Christians, because all the ones I've met are God fearing Christians. And the children that were abused were not abused by Christians but rather by non-Christian paedophiles. How about checking your facts before you start ranting on about stuff you have no idea about?
Have you met anyone who works for Anglicare? I've met several. Have you met anyone from the Salvation Army Church? I've met several.
I've never once met anyone from my Church, or from any of the charitable organizations I've mentioned who believes that sexual abuse against Children is okay. Stop making straw man arguments and check your facts. Furthermore who are you aware of that is helping to address this issue? I can name several.
Are you also saying Tim Costello has a black heart?
In fact I can also assure you that every Protestant Church in Australia follows an open-complaint system for sexual abuse against children --> Complaints are made to the Church leadership/council, and are then brought to the Priest/Minister. He then decides, based on the denomination's guidelines, what procedure to take next - typically the Bishop will then be informed, and the appropriate govenment organization is informed (there's one for each state and territory in Australia). I should also note for those of you who are ignorant and are thinking "that process means the leadership can just bury it" - it is generally legally required that the complaint is made by a registered church minister by law for a complaint to be made on behalf of the Church - and also, any person can make a complaint directly to the government authorities themselves. So - if a complaint of sexual abuse is made against the Church, then the Church has to bring it to their priest or to their bishop in order to lodge the complaint with the authorities - it's the law.
The process is designed so that it cannot be abused in the way you've heard about in the Catholic Church in America (where no one except the Bishop knows about the abuse) - in fact, if the abuse was to be made against a priest or anyone with a high position within an individual church the process is altered slightly - the leadership is still informed first, and then they must inform the Bishop. There's no secrecy, there are no ways to cover up allegations.
This is the procedure for any claims of abuse, regardless of whether its verbal, assault or sexual. There are also more safeguards in place, but I'm not going to bore you with them all now - it is suffice to say that the procedures and measures in place go above and beyond those that are legally required. If you wish to dispute this, read up on them and then talk to me about it. Check your facts before making claims that are both inaccurate and deceitful.
Straw Man Argument.
Are we now going to get into a discussion about communism Vs capitalism? Are you happy to support these communist ideals:
Universal Healthcare
Public Education
Law Enforcement
Democratic government
Roads and community services
And still claim to be a capitalist? Or would actually admit that capitalism on its own doesn't work any better then communism on its own?? If you really support capitalism so much you would go and live somewhere where the above mentioned communist ideals do not exist - like in India for example. And if you really do not believe in Christianity then you should go and live in a Non-Christian and Non-Religious country like North Korea.
Great, so lets abolish universal healthcare, and public education then? Do you know what kind of a person you are Sep? You look at something, and you think "wow this must be bad because it doesn't directly benefit me". Yeah it's as simple as that, for someone who makes the outrageous claim that I and out of touch with reality you are not doing a very good job of being in-touch yourself. So a few Church clergy have been involved with paedophilia - so what? How does that change the fact that the vast majority of child sexual abuse happens in the home? If you care so much about preventing child abuse, shouldn't you be tackling that issue first and foremost before worrying about the odd church here and there that doesn't have sufficient safe guards in place?
Here is my main question to you Sep: What are you doing to solve the problem of child abuse? I know several Christians actively involved in tackling this issue - as you seem to be so passionate about it I believe you must be doing more then they are, correct?
And you contradict yourself entirely over your stance on community work. You condemn them for paying salaries - and at the same time you say "I don't believe people who have no education or are too lazy to get a job should have the same financial status as me. I work my --- off day and night, so I can pay my bills, why shouldn't they?" - so which is it? Should they have a salary so they can live or not?? You can't have it both ways Sep - either you're saying they should work 38hrs a week for free and have no money to live on and rely on Centrelink - or you're saying there should be no Centrelink and people should earn their money? If they should earn their money, and they cannot earn it through their community organization then you may as well be saying there should be no Smith Family, no community work (like homeless shelters, etc) at all? Is that what you're saying? You want the Australian people to have a system more like America??
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Well surprise, surprise, I got a NEG back ... I wonder where it could have come from? There was no comment with it - I can only assume Sep did indeed read this thread, and decided to give me "revenge feedback".
If this is the case, Sep, why don't you explain why all you could come up with was a bunch of straw man arguments and personal attacks? :mad2: - I mean, if you're going to say "priests abuse children" shouldn't you also say "parents abuse children - shame on every parent out there"?? In fact isn't that MORE important, since they are the main group of people that abuse children??
And furthermore, :mad2: you haven't told me anything about what you are personally doing to help resolve the situation. I feel very deeply offended by your comments as I know many people who have been and are still involved in this issue! You don't even seem to acknowledge their admirable efforts! :mad2:
How many ORGANIZED paedophile groups do you know of that say they're Christian? I mean, I can name some like NAMBLA that are not Christian, and are secular. What about child trafficking in Australia - how many Christians have ever been found to be involved in it?? Can you even answer any of these questions Sep - do you actually know anything about child trafficking in Australia?
You opened this discussion - justify your position.
If this is the case, Sep, why don't you explain why all you could come up with was a bunch of straw man arguments and personal attacks? :mad2: - I mean, if you're going to say "priests abuse children" shouldn't you also say "parents abuse children - shame on every parent out there"?? In fact isn't that MORE important, since they are the main group of people that abuse children??
And furthermore, :mad2: you haven't told me anything about what you are personally doing to help resolve the situation. I feel very deeply offended by your comments as I know many people who have been and are still involved in this issue! You don't even seem to acknowledge their admirable efforts! :mad2:
How many ORGANIZED paedophile groups do you know of that say they're Christian? I mean, I can name some like NAMBLA that are not Christian, and are secular. What about child trafficking in Australia - how many Christians have ever been found to be involved in it?? Can you even answer any of these questions Sep - do you actually know anything about child trafficking in Australia?
You opened this discussion - justify your position.
The only people on this planet who are inherently good are Christians. Right, Meksi?
I can guarantee that Christians are doing more then anyone to fight child trafficking.
Here is the page at World Vision Australia on child trafficking:
http://www.worldvision.com.au/wvconnect/content.asp?topicID=13
World Vision is the world's largest religious children's rights organization. Conversely, the world's largest non-religious children's rights organization is CCF - who are currently calling themselves Child Fund Australia in Australia. Can you find their page on child trafficking?
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:childfund.org.au+child+trafficking
I couldn't either. So I searched the next largest non-religious children's rights organization - Save the Children Fund:
http://www.google.com/search?num=19&q=site:savethechildren.org.au+child+trafficking
I couldn't find their page on child trafficking either. It is mentioned a few times, on relevant pages - but that's all.
Searching for the term Child Trafficking produces just six results on ChildFund's site, just 19 results on Save the Children Fund's site - and on WorldVision it produces 161 results (with google hiding a further 133 similar pages on the domain):
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=site:worldvision.com.au+child+trafficking
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=site:worldvision.com.au+child+trafficking&sa=N&filter=0
Here is the page at World Vision Australia on child trafficking:
http://www.worldvision.com.au/wvconnect/content.asp?topicID=13
World Vision is the world's largest religious children's rights organization. Conversely, the world's largest non-religious children's rights organization is CCF - who are currently calling themselves Child Fund Australia in Australia. Can you find their page on child trafficking?
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:childfund.org.au+child+trafficking
I couldn't either. So I searched the next largest non-religious children's rights organization - Save the Children Fund:
http://www.google.com/search?num=19&q=site:savethechildren.org.au+child+trafficking
I couldn't find their page on child trafficking either. It is mentioned a few times, on relevant pages - but that's all.
Searching for the term Child Trafficking produces just six results on ChildFund's site, just 19 results on Save the Children Fund's site - and on WorldVision it produces 161 results (with google hiding a further 133 similar pages on the domain):
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=site:worldvision.com.au+child+trafficking
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=site:worldvision.com.au+child+trafficking&sa=N&filter=0
wow, i should not touch this thread, but, it is just calling for me to rip Meksilon a new -------.
fact is, how many of the people you mentioned ARE Christian? just cause you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish, or any other religion, doenst NOT mean you are good or bad. A religion has no effect on what type of person you are or arent. you comments about none of them being Christian are just asinine. how the hell would you know what they are? you best friends with them and know what religion they are? fact is that they could be anything. that being said, i need to step out of here before i go off.
fact is, how many of the people you mentioned ARE Christian? just cause you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish, or any other religion, doenst NOT mean you are good or bad. A religion has no effect on what type of person you are or arent. you comments about none of them being Christian are just asinine. how the hell would you know what they are? you best friends with them and know what religion they are? fact is that they could be anything. that being said, i need to step out of here before i go off.
And also, reading statements on a web page is the best way to determine who's doing more for a cause.
Just thought I'd let everybody know.
Just thought I'd let everybody know.
I never said that, stop misquoting me and making srawmans. :mad2:
I said none of the organizations involved in child trafficking purport themselves to be a Christian organization. If you think that's stupid then by al means show me all the organizations which prove your point.
Quite easily, when you know many friends and family friends and Church members and friends of the Church who are involved in community work.
Depends what you're talking about - if I was to pull an example out like indigenous child abuse in the Northern Territory (the part of Australia with the highest level of child abuse) I could tell you, for instance, that one of the largest problems is alcohol abuse (which is why it's now a dry state), and what happens is alcohol ruins Aboriginals. Then, seeing this is a vulnerable community in come the convicted paedophiles who don't want to go back to gaol and need somewhere to hide. They come in, join the communities, abuse the children - then 9, 10 and 11 year olds start giving birth to children, and they raise their children in this environment, and after a while it's just accepted in the community that this is the way it is.
Now that's not an organization, it is just a secular community that has had all its problems implode. But it is a sure formula for disaster. Sep's comments are ignorant - he attacks Anglicare despite the fact that no member of their organization has ever been convicted of child abuse - using an offensive, ignorant, straw man argument.
"Alcohol ruins Aboriginals".
Reminds me of "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff (referring to marijuana) is what makes them crazy."
Source: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm
Reminds me of "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff (referring to marijuana) is what makes them crazy."
Source: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm
Ben, that is very non Cristian, so, i cant read it. and meksilons comments piss me off so much that i just cant comment on anything he says anymore. matter of fact, i think he may be the first to make it on my ignore list.
Wth is a "Cristian"!?!? Is this some new race I've never heard of?methodcomptech said:
