The Bible

[conkermaniac]

Re: UO

Originally posted by Owen


And who are you to judge the nature of God? Are you a god?

And who are you to judge the nature of God? By saying that he is good, you are judging him every bit as much as I am saying that he is evil. I love how Christians say the same thing...it's as if you're given a manual on how to respond to atheists.

 

[conkermaniac]

Shizzle, this is for you...

Dt 25:11 -- "If two men are fighting and the wife of one man rescues her husband from his assailant by grabbing his testicles, you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

That was the weird one I was talking about.

 

[quantum4]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Post hoc ergo propter hoc...

Can you explain what that means? Not familiar with it...

Look, Owen is obviously following his faith so blindly he doesn't consider the evidence I presented... he calls it flawed. Yet he failed to point out any flaws in it. I usually have a word for his type, Christian fundamentalist. Well.. now that is probably going too far...

 

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by quantum4
Can you explain what that means? Not familiar with it...

It's a logical fallacy that means (in Latin): "after this, therefore because of this." It's the fallacy of coincidental correlation. In layman's terms:

Event 2 happened after Event 1. Therefore, Event 2 happened because of Event 1.

 

[quantum4]

Now that is explained, it makes perfect sense and is applicable to Owen's flawed reasoning.

 

[trenzterra]

I formerly thought of being a Catholic/Christian, but I decided to remain Freethinker.

Why?

Because I feel that once you are catholic, you are like passing your whole life to Jesus. Which has no meaning. I mean, you own your own life.

I somehow disagree with the bible too.

Anyway, no offence.

 

[quantum4]

The way I see it, the bible holds no truth. Christians claim, well morals originate from the bible. Actually that is false. The Hammurabi code was written with strict moral guidelines, such as no stealing or murder. This code was written hundreds of years before the bible was written. It was a very strict code with regulations even applying to gambling.

I am a free thinker and currently am reading some works by Camus and Nietzsche.

 

[Webdude]

Originally posted by quantum4
Christians claim morals originate from the bible.

Christians claim no such thing. Morals and common sense were written into the Bible as law.

Why do people recognize the law as applied by government, but not religion? Because you are immediatly punished if caught breaking a law made by man. God does not punish immediately.

Let's just for the sake of arguement say there IS a God and the Bible is real. Because of that, there is an afterlife, and before you can enjoy or hate the afterlife, you must first be judged by the God that created it....and be judged according to how you are right now.

What will you tell this God? To screw off? Oh I didnt know, nobody told me? Seriously, assume it's all real. What will you say to him? I dont think I want to be on the wrong side of an entity that could simply turn me into a single cell organism for etermity and leave me with the full memory and understanding of what has been done to me. I'm sure that's nothing compared to what he "could" do.

You live less than 100 years. Without belief in an afterlife, nothing you do really matters, does it? That new car, new job, career, family, feeding the starving millions, helping the sick, saving the whales, saving the bulls, etc, etc,.....all of it counts for nothing, doesnt it? Nothing you could possibly do makes a bit of difference. The Bible changes all that. It makes those things count. It gives you a reason to do good.

 

[quantum4]

Originally posted by Webdude
Christians claim no such thing. Morals and common sense were written into the Bible as law.

Why do people recognize the law as applied by government, but not religion? Because you are immediatly punished if caught breaking a law made by man. God does not punish immediately.

It is unconstitutional to infringe on others the rights of those religious groups.

Let's just for the sake of arguement say there IS a God and the Bible is real.

No there is not.

Because of that, there is an afterlife, and before you can enjoy or hate the afterlife, you must first be judged by the God that created it....and be judged according to how you are right now.

You cannot change my beliefs with the ones you claim to be true. I do not believe in an afterlife. I am an existentialist partly, and do not believe I am doing wrong. I am a good person.

What will you tell this God? To screw off? Oh I didnt know, nobody told me? Seriously, assume it's all real.

Aren't you condescending? Respect the beliefs of others. Some human invented god won't cut it.

You live less than 100 years. Without belief in an afterlife, nothing you do really matters, does it? That new car, new job, career, family, feeding the starving millions, helping the sick, saving the whales, saving the bulls, etc, etc,.....all of it counts for nothing, doesnt it? Nothing you could possibly do makes a bit of difference. The Bible changes all that. It makes those things count. It gives you a reason to do good.

The bible changes nothing and has nothign to do with anything. I am an existentialist. Does that make me evil? Does that make me bad? Your views are arbitrary and uncomprehensible as it comes... you condescend on others for the sake of your beliefs you cannot prove. Life is the most precicous thing to an existentialist. The bible somehow makes it counts? Yeah right.. in fact it makes your life worthless. And don't you dare that I don't have any reason to good. This is pathetic.. never have I been to a forum filled with so many Christian fundamentalists.

 

[Webdude]

No I am not looking down on others. You didnt read very well, I said "Let's just for the sake of arguement say there IS a God and the Bible is real ".

You are assuming my beliefs are the same as others. They are not. For one, I dont believe that a person living a good and moral life would be punished to the "pit of fire" as called in the Bible. People who are evil in their hearts, yes...but not good people. I have also posted before that I believe there is most likely other life in the Universe, contradictory to other Christians, especially fundamentalists.

It is unconstitutional to infringe on others the rights of those religious groups.

That's funny. Gonna tell God, or even an mighty alien that? For one, I am not infringing on you or anyone else. The only time I discuss religion is when it is already brought up, regardless if here or in real life. I did not "force" my views on you here as you so well put it, I said "What if..". You cant tell me you have never asked that about other things such as "What if the sky was green", but are you so closed minded that you cant wonder "What if there is a God"? I can tell from your post that you arent able to do so. It isnt in your abilities to do it openly and honestly because you angrily deny that there can be any being higher than yourself.

Unlike you, I can see the way athiests and others see things. I can say we evolved from monkeys, I can say we were planted here by aliens. I can deny there is a God. I can argue any point openly and honestly. I can be so existentialistic that it would make you rethink your own beliefs. Of course, you would most likely call me a Fundamentalistic Existentialist

 

[JKola]

...I've been following this Topic for a couple of weeks now Me, being a born again Christian found myself laughing at atheists (not looking down on them) for some of the stupid and nonsense questions....They seem to want an answer to a question that cannot be answered unless you have a open mind and a open heart. questions like How did God do this? How did God do that?... simply shows lack of intellegence How did God make the world in 7 days..I dont know But if he's God couldnt he/she/ it do anything he/she/ it wanted to do? ...God- a supernatural being...supernatural ..something that cant be easily explained But knowing theres a God comes from experience and faith..well I G2g...Ill add more later..

 

[Abush]

I am a christian but I am inclined to believe that there is no god becuz there is no evidence that there is a god. As someone on the first page of this thread said the "big bang" theory works for me. Ask yourself this, if there was a God and we are the only living things on the whole Universe why does he make us suffer?? why is there hunger, death, war, etc... in this world? y can't he just make us peacefull if he is the most powerfull being ever? I could keep on going with the y questions that I think prooves god doesn't exist and IF he does he doesn't realy care about us as we are not the only creation of his.
For all of you people who think there is god why don't you just see the possiblities with an open mind and compare em??

 

[JKola]

Hmmmm. If you read the bible you see that we did have it perfect In the Garden of Eden..Sin came into the world ..bad things happened..I can explain this in this terms or diffrent terms...


God dose care about us but we mess things for ourselfs by doing thing that God dosent want (Lie,Steal,Cheat, e.i) I can go on and on we get punished for the worng things we do ..and if you can say you never did anything wrong in your life..I wont speak another thought on the Bible subject but we all have done wrong I mean Job had so many things happen to him and he was angry about it but God sometimes dose things we dont understand..We are not even close to God position so why should we question him?..Im in a hurry g2g P.s-Couldnt he just kill you in your sleep..I mean many people die in there sleep and doctors have no Idea why not just old peole but young people God dose care about Us ...well G2g

 

[Webdude]

Originally posted by abush
why does he make us suffer??

Free will is the answer to that. That is the freedom to make your own choices. God does not make us suffer, we make ourselves suffer. If you go punch Sam in the nose, you do it of your own free will. Are you saying it is God making Sam suffer? It's not God's doing, it's your own. For God to stop it from happening, he would have to take away your free will.

Somone has unprotected sex and gets sick. It's not God's fault. Dont even try to swing things that way. You make your own choices.

For every person suffering, there is a company, government, or other person at fault. No companies and governments do not have such a thing as free will, but the people running them and working for them do. In order for everything to work perfect, you would have to take away everyone's freedom to make their own choices. We'd be a bunch of Borgs. Perhaps you would prefer that?

As for the big bang, it's just theory....but I do believe in it. However, where do you think that great big ball of gas that exploded, thus causing the big bang, come from? Where did everything truly begin? Oh I know the scientists in their almighty wise knowledge of everything say it explodes, expands, gravity shrinks it back, it explodes again...but where and how did it all start?

 

[kojiro]

just my observation.

the bible is what you want it to be.


atheists use it to prove that God doesnt exist .

believers use it to reaffirm their faith .

 

[Abush]

oh well I don't realy want to debate on this issue as I don't realy know which side to be on

 

[loggerheads]

Originally posted by Webdude
Free will is the answer to that.

Free will is an illusion.

I'm tired.

On the more relevant issue of the bible, it seems to me, that it must be imperfect. You can believe that thousands of years ago some people were spoken to by god if you like, you can believe that less than 2000 years ago some more was added or whatever, but is the book you could read today gonna be the same? All sorts of people have done all sorts of translations and alterations over thousands of years, some of which were accidental, some of which were self-serving.

I'm agnostic. The only decision I'll make is not to make a decision. Some people claim to know there's no god, some people claim to know there is one. Good for them. I don't know if there's Allah or Buddah up there or 1000 Greek gods or the viking ones or whatever.

 

[JKola]

Dt 25:11 -- "If two men are fighting and the wife of one man rescues her husband from his assailant by grabbing his testicles, you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

lol...frist this was in the OT when Jesus wasnt even born and frist why would your wife grab somebody testicals...to stop a fight..I mean.thats nasty and its bad becaue you take a man ability to have children..and 2nd before Jesus (God's son) came and showed his compassion on us that the way it was because Sin was a big deal(and it still is) because there was no to get rid of it.. just askin for forgiveness was'nt an a option you had to much more because the commucation (to God) was cut off because our sin (Adam & Eve). So if you sin you punished more harshly by the (people of the tribe) But in the NT Jesus was pefect and he died for all our sins..making a way or better way to commucate with God...Makin a way to just ask for forgiveness for our sins and stop the harsh punishments ,Burnt Offerings ei because Jesus took the biggest punishment and was the purest and final offering...sorry in a hurry G2g

 

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by JKola
...I've been following this Topic for a couple of weeks now Me, being a born again Christian found myself laughing at atheists (not looking down on them) for some of the stupid and nonsense questions....They seem to want an answer to a question that cannot be answered unless you have a open mind and a open heart. questions like How did God do this? How did God do that?... simply shows lack of intellegence How did God make the world in 7 days..I dont know But if he's God couldnt he/she/ it do anything he/she/ it wanted to do? ...God- a supernatural being...supernatural ..something that cant be easily explained But knowing theres a God comes from experience and faith..well I G2g...Ill add more later..

The problem with this is that I can create my own God and say that He can do anything. But at least my God will be able to stand up to iron chariots, unlike the Christian one.

Also, nobody has answered my question yet...what makes the Bible any more believable than the Greek myths or the Buddhist texts? Why was evil introduced by a fruit and not Pandora's Box?

 

[Toefur]

To quote my Christian friends, "The Bible is more believable than any other ancient religious writings because the bible is the word of god, and I know its the word of god because it says so and because I know it is".

BTW: Conker, I've seen you posting over at Infidels, aye?