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To the darn conservatives on this forum...

conkermaniac

VIP
NLC
So where are these "weapons of mass destruction"? Why do senior British officials no longer believe that these WMD will ever be found? And why has the Bush administration retracted so many of their previous claims? Only one explanation...there are no WMD. :D

And Hussein's human rights record is near spotless compared to some other countries we haven't invaded.
 
They're there. We'll find them.

Do you really think Bush would invade Iraq knowing he has no weapons or connections to terrorism and think he would get away with it? Wouldn't he know that people would inquire about the weapons after it was all over?

So what would you want to do right now? Put Saddam back into power and apoligize? If you don't think his human rights record is bad (stuffing people into meat slicers and listening to them scream, giving prisoners acid baths, and cutting out tounges of people isn't so bad according to you), why don't you move to Syria (another Ba'athist regime) or Iran or something?

You make me sick.

Edit: I see you you're from China and might not know what freedom is like. Well, don't worry, the USA will be liberating you soon :D
 
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Originally posted by Conscript
Edit: I see you you're from China and might not know what freedom is like. Well, don't worry, the USA will be liberating you soon :D

THat was uncalled for...
 
How is that a question for conservatives only? I know republicans, democrats, and independents that supported this war. Most of whom still do support this war. Tony Blair is taking more heat because he never had the levels of support that Bush had. It also doesn't help when Hans Blix and others in their media attack him non-stop.

In the USA this story is media driven as a majority still support Bush and/or his actions. Why? Simple:
- Saddam Hussein was a terrible man with a horrible human rights record. In the long run countless lives will have been saved as a result of this war. People think of the greater good.
- He has not only possessed but used weapons of mass destruction. It's no secret that he hated the USA and would have tried to kill "the infidels" as he put it. In my opinion it was just a matter of time before he caused more chaos, either directly or indirectly.
- Documents, documents, documents. They're still in Iraq uncovering documents that show he had a WMD program. Every now and then we find something small such as digging up the garden to find a nuclear material and plans. Was it for a recent program? No, but why would it be there at all? Clearly they had such plans and wanted to save it for the future or else it simply would have been destroyed.
- Time. Those who criticized the choice for war said the UN needed more time. Yet they don't want to provide the US with more time to discover things. If there isn't any new evidence of WMD's within a year I think public opinion would dramatically shift. Until then many Americans simply want more time to see how it plays out.

If you want greater American support in being negative towards the war your best bet is to go after:
- Intelligence: If there was such rock solid intel why isn't there solid information on the threats posed and where the weapons could have been moved to. Does the CIA have enough human operatives or are we simply relying on NSA intercepts? I think that's a big concern for Americans.
- Faulty Statements: This is already being done with the state of union address and the CIA taking the blame for not correcting the mistake before that speech was given. Any other errors should be criticized in order to keep those politicians honest.

I think that pretty much wraps it up. There are definite concerns to raise but it's far to early to attack Bush as being a liar to call for impeachment. Those people seem to believe there was an elaborate behind the scenes scheme to invade Iraq. To me that's simply ridiculous, if it were true I'm sure Bush would have been smart enough to try and plant WMD to justify his actions. Clearly he didn't do such a thing so at best you can criticize the intelligence / faulty statements. Just my two cents.
 
BTW, for those too lazy to click on the link here are the most memorable quotes from it:

"There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible."
-Iraqi torture witness' sworn statement to INDICT

“In 1991 Saddam killed 500,000 people when they rose against him. Nobody demonstrated against him then. But now the United States wants to get rid of the dictator, people are demonstrating against it.”
-one of the Iraqi liberation soldiers the U.S. is training at "Camp Freedom" in Hungary

"The last thing we want to see is a smoking gun. A gun smokes after it's been fired…. If someone waits for a smoking gun, it's certain we will have waited too long."
-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

"If this were 'all about oil,' we could just declare victory in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia and go home. Who's going to stop us? Our troops are already there!"
-Rush Hudson Limbaugh III

“I am surprised to hear of all the anti-war demonstrations in the West. I wish that the demonstrators could spend just 24 hours in the place I have come from and see the reality of Iraq. Fourteen lost years of my life. Nothing but bread for food — darkness, filth, beatings, torture, killings, bitterness and humiliation.”
-Rafat Abdulmajeed Muhammad, jailed for selling a roll of film to an British journalist


On and here is one FOR ALL THE LIBERALS TO CHOKE ON:

"If Saddam Hussein fails to comply and we fail to act or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of sanctions and ignore the commitments he's made? Well, he will conclude that the international community's lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on doing more to build an arsenal of devastating destruction. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. The stakes could not be higher. Some way, someday, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."
-President Bill Clinton in 1998
 
Originally posted by Conscript
They're there. We'll find them.

Do you really think Bush would invade Iraq knowing he has no weapons or connections to terrorism and think he would get away with it? Wouldn't he know that people would inquire about the weapons after it was all over?
The Saudi government has even more connections with terrorism, but we don't invade them because they are our allies. After September 11th, a list of governments that had connections to the attacks included just about every Islamic nation besides Iraq.

If Saddam was really such a threat, then it should be easy to find evidence (as it is with North Korea), yet time and time again, Bush resorted to using fabricated "evidence", only to retract it later. Why does Bush continue to rely on falsified or insubstantial evidence if Saddam is really developing a complex WMD program?

So what would you want to do right now? Put Saddam back into power and apoligize? If you don't think his human rights record is bad (stuffing people into meat slicers and listening to them scream, giving prisoners acid baths, and cutting out tounges of people isn't so bad according to you), why don't you move to Syria (another Ba'athist regime) or Iran or something?
Yep, since Saddam was so bad, let's go ahead and commit even more human rights abuses. It makes sense to kill Iraqi children because we're trying to save them from a leader (under which they would have never died anyway). Do you realize that the Iraqi people hate us more than they hated Saddam? They would prefer that America put Saddam back in power and get the hell out of their country.

I never said that Hussein's human rights record isn't bad. It is horrible. But do you even know what's happening everyday in the other Muslim countries? I mean, the ones that are our allies, like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In Iraq, women are treated (relative to men) almost as well as they are treated in America. You can't say this about any of our Muslim allies, besides Turkey. I would prefer a secular Islamic nation ruled by a psycho despot anyday to a fundamentalist Islamic nation ruled by another despot.

You make me sick.
You make me even sicker. It's OK for thousands of people to die every day from civil wars in Congo and Somalia, but of course, it's not OK for a few people in Iraq to die every month.

Edit: I see you you're from China and might not know what freedom is like. Well, don't worry, the USA will be liberating you soon :D
I'm an American, and I know what freedom is. And America does not stand for freedom. It is a nation with flaws like any other. It's conservatives like you who don't know what freedom really is.
 
Originally posted by Todd
How is that a question for conservatives only? I know republicans, democrats, and independents that supported this war. Most of whom still do support this war. Tony Blair is taking more heat because he never had the levels of support that Bush had. It also doesn't help when Hans Blix and others in their media attack him non-stop.
Personally, I don't know a single liberal who supports the war, and Republicans, Democrats, and independents all can be conservatives. There seems to be this misconception that only Republicans are conservatives, for some reason.

- Saddam Hussein was a terrible man with a horrible human rights record. In the long run countless lives will have been saved as a result of this war. People think of the greater good.
But this does not justify the other countries that we haven't attacked simply because we like them. If we ranked the 191 countries (not including Holy See) by their human rights record, you would find that Iraq would have ranked around 100th. The other 91 should be our priority.

- He has not only possessed but used weapons of mass destruction. It's no secret that he hated the USA and would have tried to kill "the infidels" as he put it. In my opinion it was just a matter of time before he caused more chaos, either directly or indirectly.
As much as Saddam Hussein hated America, he knew better than to attack the US, either directly or indirectly. I wouldn't mind if the US took a pre-emptive strike against Iraq with more evidence that Saddam was a threat. But with what little evidence we have now, it seems that Saddam was never a threat to the United States.

- Documents, documents, documents. They're still in Iraq uncovering documents that show he had a WMD program. Every now and then we find something small such as digging up the garden to find a nuclear material and plans. Was it for a recent program? No, but why would it be there at all? Clearly they had such plans and wanted to save it for the future or else it simply would have been destroyed.
In this area, I agree with you. Saddam could have been planning to restart a weapons program as soon as the weapons inspectors got out. Although there have been documents uncovered that might lead one to believe that Saddam may have had a weapons program, again, it is not substantial evidence.

- Time. Those who criticized the choice for war said the UN needed more time. Yet they don't want to provide the US with more time to discover things. If there isn't any new evidence of WMD's within a year I think public opinion would dramatically shift. Until then many Americans simply want more time to see how it plays out.
Similarly, I can ask why the US government deserves more time when they weren't willing to give time to the UN inspectors. A war is a serious issue. It is not to be taken lightly. But if the US was to go to war with Iraq, I would expect that they already have sufficient evidence to back up the war. But after several months, they still have not found anything substantial. That's primarily why I'm very disappointed.

I think that pretty much wraps it up. There are definite concerns to raise but it's far to early to attack Bush as being a liar to call for impeachment. Those people seem to believe there was an elaborate behind the scenes scheme to invade Iraq. To me that's simply ridiculous, if it were true I'm sure Bush would have been smart enough to try and plant WMD to justify his actions. Clearly he didn't do such a thing so at best you can criticize the intelligence / faulty statements. Just my two cents.
Bush is smart enough to not plant fake weapons in Iraq until after Election Day. After all, if such a plan were discovered by Bush's opponents, it would cost him the election. The only thing that matters to him is his re-election, not the welfare of the American or Iraqi people.
 
makes sense to kill Iraqi children because we're trying to save them from a leader (under which they would have never died anyway). Do you realize that the Iraqi people hate us more than they hated Saddam? They would prefer that America put Saddam back in power and get the hell out of their country.

How could you be so ignorant? People of Iraq approve of the USA's actions and thank us for liberating them. There was a poll taken that stated that 65% approve of the USA and 15% are firmly against (rest in between).

You're a liberal and you live in la la land, so this kind of ignorant statement is expected, but damn. I'm soooo glad you only represent a minority view in this country, while the MAJORITY of Americans know better.
 
I picked Rush Limbaugh because its a good collection of links to other news sources, which as you can see span the entire political spectrum. I personally watch Fox News on TV, read the Drudge Report online, and watch all kinds of media.

I think you're just too eager to blame Bush for wrongdoing because of your seething hatred for him. It's the liberal crackup and this kind of Bush-hating will lead to an encore of the 2002 elections, or even better the 1984 elections :D I'm not complaining about that though, hehe. In fact, keep talking! LOUDER! Let America hear you, Republicans need more votes.
 
Originally posted by Conscript
I personally watch Fox News on TV, read the Drudge Report online
I will repeat what Daniel said:
I firmly believe that you are mislead by biased media.
 
Looks like many of you have been blinded by the media and the bush government. This war has nothing to do with WMD if fact is was very much has a potical stunt by the bush admin. ofcourse no weapons have been found because either there are no weapons as such or were moved to serbia where much of the saddam government fled to. Bush merly used this to do what his father could not and for good reason. now the americans are stuck in that country until it gets back up and thats going to be a long time yet by the look of things. I hope it shows the americans that aren't the world's greatest country and in future should think before invading very country who doesn't agree with them. in fact they should learn to stick their noses out of world politics and worry about their own country.
on the topic of human right abuses doesn't anyone know about the countless countries that also do it. China, Loas, indonesia and of course the USA. The US i'm sure hasn't got a clean record, look at the way they are treating the people they are holding in X-ray bay. so before you americans decide to start critize the whole world and the war of irqi than please look at the world around you before bombing it.
 
Originally posted by Conscript
How is Drudge Report biased? They simply link the headlines from other news sites!

Many major news sites get their articles from other news sites and/or reporters that are just as biased.

Oh, and FoX is biased too.
 
Well what are your sources for information? You have to get it from somewhere. Everything has a bias one way or another, the trick is to review all your options and decide what you want to believe. CNN, Reuters, AP, MSNBC are all biased (favoring liberals) while Fox News is neutral (the reason conservatives always win on Fox news is because that is the natural order of things (conservatives are always right, hence why they're called right-wing, and liberals are wrong), and talk radio like Limbaugh and Hannity are biased right-wing.
 
Where do I get my infomation? I don't. I simply don't care. I know American media is biased, so I don't watch it.
 
Hey, I like that, "right" wing.

I haven't paid much attention to the news lately...

Anyways, I trusted that if they were so sure Saddam had WMD or was developing them, the war was necessary.

But, now that it is taking a while to come up with the goods, it makes me wonder. Where is the immediate threat?
 
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