First time doing this...lots of little questions

[kgiessler]

I am about to embark on my first website design...it will be http://www.kurtgiessler.com As usual, it will have all the "I like pizza" crap, but in addition, I want to do something for all of my friends. I want to create what I will call 'the friend file'. I would like people to be able to go to my site, and fill out their contact information as if they were signing a normal guest book. However, I want them to be able to view everyone that has signed the guestbook, so that all of my friends have access to everyone else's info.
In the past I have done a little bit of C++.

-What makes cgi/php/asp different? What do cgi and php stand for?
-Should there be any other format that I consider (Javascript or something else)? I assume these 3 are the most popular.
-I am doing this primarily as a learning experience...which of these formats is most likely to be used in the future?
-What I will I require from a webhost (given a certain format)?
-What would webhosting cost?
-Which of these formats (or another) would you recommend?

And most importantly:
-Any URLs for beginners guides or introductory tutorials to this sort of development? Anything I find is either about sending email or is way over my head.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Feel free to IM me (AOL) or ICQ me if you would like.

Kurt Giessler
AIM: kgiessler
ICQ:18081153

 

[JALman]

A little primer (long)

Originally posted by kgiessler
I am about to embark on my first website design...it will be http://www.kurtgiessler.com As usual, it will have all the "I like pizza" crap, but in addition, I want to do something for all of my friends. I want to create what I will call 'the friend file'. I would like people to be able to go to my site, and fill out their contact information as if they were signing a normal guest book. However, I want them to be able to view everyone that has signed the guestbook, so that all of my friends have access to everyone else's info.
In the past I have done a little bit of C++.

-What makes cgi/php/asp different? What do cgi and php stand for?

CGI is Common Gateway Interface. It is not a programming language, it is used to make scripts powerful. The best-known language to use CGI is PERL. You do not have to use any CGI to create PERL so learning PERL should have a higher priority. Since you've programmed in C++, you shouldn't have much of a problem w/PERL as long as you understand using PERL for the web.

PHP is Professional Home Pages. It is newer than PERL and seems to have more flexibility in regards to web publishing than PERL. I have not has much experience with PHP much, though.

ASP is Active Server Pages. It was developed by Microsoft as a proprietary scripting for their own NT and IIS servers. Therefore, only servers made by Microsoft have to ability to process ASP code.

All three are server-side, and I'll explain why that's a good thing below...

-Should there be any other format that I consider (Javascript or something else)? I assume these 3 are the most popular.

JavaScript is a sorta looser version of Java. It can do interactive stuff to the browser like clocks, color changes, detecting browers, etc. It is also notorious for annoying stuff like prompts and alert boxes. Any browser that has the ability to use JavaScript can use it. I would not recommend relying on JS for Web pages since the server-side languages (PERL,PHP,ASP) are processed to a server that supports them then shown to all browsers, but JavaScript is used only certain browsers and even with different versions. Also, JS code can get messy if you want to use two scripts.

-I am doing this primarily as a learning experience...which of these formats is most likely to be used in the future?

Neither of them will be obsoleted since they are so heavily used, but PHP seems to be the new "thing" for web publishers (webmasters) who want interactive pages.

-What I will I require from a webhost (given a certain format)?

The server-side languages require the server to have the ability to interpret/compile-and-run/whatever it. When looking for a web host, especially a free one, try to look for their service to use PERL and PHP (mainly used for Unix/Linux servers, sometimes Microsoft servers) and ASP (always used for Microsoft servers). What it will really takes is your ability to take advantage to use them.

For JavaScript and other similar client-side languages, you just need the assumption that you and your visitors have JavaScript enabled on your/their browsers. This can be done with a stat tracking program or if you want your page to be accessible to all browsers, a browser-detection JavaScript that redirects to a certain page if the user has a certain/no JS-enabled browser.

In the end, there are things JS can do that the server-side languages can't and the other way around.

-What would webhosting cost?

Depends. Getting a domain name (I'm assuming you haven't register kurtgiessler.com) requires signing with a regristrar for a fee, or getting one for free (BUT you won't likely own your own domain, and I strongly recommend against a free domain service).

Finding a web host that can redirect the domain is a little trickier if you want a free host. A paid host requires that you use their DNS and nameserver addresses so it the domain will connect with the host's server.

-Which of these formats (or another) would you recommend?

I personally recommend PERL, since having a C++ programming background helps.

And most importantly:
-Any URLs for beginners guides or introductory tutorials to this sort of development? Anything I find is either about sending email or is way over my head.

Plenty...

www.htmlgoodies.com for HTML and design tips
www.phpbuilder.com for PHP tips
www.dantobias.com/webtips for important web design tips
www.stars.com is a very good site for PERL and CGI, but also has lots of pages on CGI, PERL, ASP, JavaScript, etc.
www.resourceindex.com for a listing of free CGI and PHP scripts
www.javascripts.com for free JavaScripts
www.prohosting.com since I'm currently signed up for their pay service. Try seeing if their features are what you want for your Web site.

I strongly recommend reading Dan Tobias' Web Tips first since covers the fundamentals of web design and web publishing. Followed by HTML Goodies. Then read the articles at stars.com. Check out ProHosting also. Then go to the others since they are scripts repositories. Yeah, I am suggesting reading tons of material since you'll learn user tendencies and how to make your site visible and handling domain names and other stresses/problems.

If all else fails, a good ol' search on the Web for what you want won't hurt.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Feel free to IM me (AOL) or ICQ me if you would like.

Kurt Giessler
AIM: kgiessler
ICQ:18081153

You're welcome. You are welcome to e-mail me @ clarence AT surfsouth.com if you are having any trouble/growing pains.

 

[jw]

I have found PHP the easiest of all of the languages and it is almost identical to the C++ syntax, so it is probably the best for your needs, as JALman said, you can definetally tell that he doesn't work with PHP much. He is one of the few that still like perl as compared with PHP for normal web programming.

 

[Niaad]

Just to let you know...

PHP = Personal Home Page...because it was intended to make web sites so customizable to your personal preferences, it would be a "personal home page."

At least, that's what the site I found said.

 

[lucifer]

Don't knock perl it's a very nifty language for alot of things. you can write some short short but powerful code


php is very nice and better for 'interactive' web stuff

 

[kgiessler]

Thanks!

Well, I have done a bit more research on which format to use and I think I have narrowed it down a bit.

Firstly, let me thank all of you for your replies, its very nice of you to help some random person at a random whim. Thanks .

Jalman, the links were especially helpful...

So I have got a choice in my mind...PHP or ASP. From the responses I have gotten from you guys, PHP is the way to go (even though you didnt recommend it Jalman, you said it offers more flexibility and seems to be the new thing...thats good enough for me).

And ASP, because several of my good friends at CMU (I am/was (taking leave of absence) a student there) have recommended ASP to me. Ironically, one in the same IS major recommends *against* ASP. Just says he thinks it isnt going to be a future format. However, I would imagine it will be...it seems that MS seems to determine standards at its will. And that makes me favor ASP a bit.

However...none of you mention ASP really at all.

What are the plus of the minuses? Any comments?

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[oodie]

This is my comments: Honestly I've never seen job ads that requires PHP skills in the newspaper, all companies want ASP. On the other hand, people in many forums recommends PHP. Seems like we're living in 2 different worlds, huh? If you know Windows programming maybe ASP won't be so difficult to learn and it might be useful if you're looking for a job that requires programming skills (I assume you're still studying?).

But in my personal opinion, I'll say go for PHP.

 

[jw]

if you are looking for jobs there will be more with asp and perl because php is such a new language and doesn't have the promotion power of microsoft, but php and coldfusion are gaining in market share...the east coast is more perl i found, west coast asp, south (texas mainly) is php.

 

[atlas]

Basically, you see PHP as the greatest thing. There's a HUGE difference between the average person who is picking a language to build their little site in versus the corporate world.

-mk

 

[jvv]

Originally posted by Niaad
Just to let you know...

PHP = Personal Home Page...because it was intended to make web sites so customizable to your personal preferences, it would be a "personal home page."

At least, that's what the site I found said.

Actually the new name is PHP = PHP Hypertext preprocessor. Or so they claim at zend.com