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Ben said:
New York Times V. United States

Publishing confidential information is not illegal. Getting it is, but publishing it's a protected practice of journalism.
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also depends on how you got it. if it was just given to him without him seeking out someone to go get it, then no, it isnt technically illegal, but, if he told someone to go get it and give to him, yes, it would be illegal.

as for treason, it isnt treason to print something like that, especially as a non citizen.
 
They just told on the (Dutch) news that Wikileaks has copies of all its content on 1300 different locations (domains) to stop hackers.

Lots of other people like journalists are making their own copies.
 
Darknight said:
No one wishes any harm to the US its just protecting freedom and giving the world access to embarsing cables that show that the US goverments over the last 10 years have been rather petty and dumb.
All this can do is help protect freedom & bring about a better tommrow for not only us but US goverment security and in fact all security around the world.
Has anyone noticed that as the years progress more and more freedom is being stipped from everyone in so called democracy ran countries??
Democracy is dead and the only way to bring it back to life and have a real say is to STOP voting major parties and start supporting the independents.
Please consider spreading this and voting independent in future.
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I wouldn't say the US is democratic anymore. Its turned more into a socialist-type government.

Meksilon said:
So what? Get over it.
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---- you, I'm an American soldier. If my life is in danger in any way, I have the right to protect it.
 
themoose said:
Could you point me towards the leak that mentioned the current whereabouts of soldiers? I'm actually interested.
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Look through WikiLeaks' Afghan and Iraq War documents.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it
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Ben said:
Look through WikiLeaks' Afghan and Iraq War documents.
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There's literally thousands of them...

Did they release info about current locations?

I agree that information that could immediately put innocent peoples lives in danger should never be given out to the public, however, whether relevant or not you cannot use that fact to ignore everything else that's happening around WikiLeaks. And currently you must note that Assange has not even been charged with any crimes related to WikiLeaks.

What is going on right now is massive. It's one of the biggest things that's ever happened on the internet; perhaps the biggest single event in regards to politics and the news.

You musn't forget that WikiLeaks is a news organisation. What WikiLeaks have done is what the news organisations of the world should have been doing. There are so many massively shocking cables that have been leaked. Each one exposing backhanded deals that would dominate the news - such as Shell infiltrating the Nigerian government to secure oil deals, the US making secret deals with China to corrupt EU climate talks, the US turning a blind eye to war crimes in Sri Lanka, and these go on and on.

Dozens of countries around the world, especially the US, are heavily corrupt - and this is the proof.

The US government is currently starting a war on information. A war against freedom of speech. The first of it's kind, and the outcome will decide how the internet is handled in times to come. They're taking over domains, they're heavily encouraging corporations to go against the law to suffocate WikiLeaks.

The next couple of weeks/months/years could decide whether or not the public go back to the darkness of never knowing about these crimes, or whether we go forward into a new age of a true democratic world.
 
themoose said:
There's literally thousands of them...

Did they release info about current locations?

I agree that information that could immediately put innocent peoples lives in danger should never be given out to the public, however, whether relevant or not you cannot use that fact to ignore everything else that's happening around WikiLeaks. And currently you must note that Assange has not even been charged with any crimes related to WikiLeaks.

What is going on right now is massive. It's one of the biggest things that's ever happened on the internet; perhaps the biggest single event in regards to politics and the news.

You musn't forget that WikiLeaks is a news organisation. What WikiLeaks have done is what the news organisations of the world should have been doing. There are so many massively shocking cables that have been leaked. Each one exposing backhanded deals that would dominate the news - such as Shell infiltrating the Nigerian government to secure oil deals, the US making secret deals with China to corrupt EU climate talks, the US turning a blind eye to war crimes in Sri Lanka, and these go on and on.

Dozens of countries around the world, especially the US, are heavily corrupt - and this is the proof.

The US government is currently starting a war on information. A war against freedom of speech. The first of it's kind, and the outcome will decide how the internet is handled in times to come. They're taking over domains, they're heavily encouraging corporations to go against the law to suffocate WikiLeaks.

The next couple of weeks/months/years could decide whether or not the public go back to the darkness of never knowing about these crimes, or whether we go forward into a new age of a true democratic world.
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Go back and read the second quote in my post.

It's part of the preamble to the Declaration of Independence. The only problem is ... if we listen to our founding fathers, we'd be labeled terrorists or contributors to insurrection and jailed indefinitely. All that when an attempt to cleanse our government of corruption and evil would be the most patriotic of choices right now. The whole reason our founding fathers included the right to bear arms and form a civilian militia in the bill of rights is for this exact reason. Eventually every government reaches the end of its lifespan; they become bloated and corrupt; they must be eliminated to protect the citizens.

/insert Ben onto No-Fly list
 
Schmarvin said:
---- you, I'm an American soldier. If my life is in danger in any way, I have the right to protect it.
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Maybe if your organization didn't lie about civilian casualties I could see your point. But as leaked documents uncovered 15,000 "unreported" civilian deaths in Iraq, I don't.
 
Meksilon, are you retarded? that is a serious question. it isnt HIS organization. he happens to be a soldier and has NO control over what has been covered up or not covered up.
 
iBrightDev said:
Meksilon, are you retarded? that is a serious question. it isnt HIS organization. he happens to be a soldier and has NO control over what has been covered up or not covered up.
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QUESTION? What question? All I said was that "his organization" (ie the organization he works for) should not lie about civilian casualties in Iraq; and that I find the leaking of documents that show the deception of said organization as useful and informative. The fact that these documents contain sensitive operational information could have been prevented if the organization has acted in a more honest way in the first place.

There's no justification for a lot of things, and one of them is torture. On another forum; where our debates are far more heated than anything you would ever find here, for months I drilled this point; everyone on the forum were divided in two; with roughly half supporting what I said, and roughly half supporting the US government. So I'll bring this up anyway.

The UN Convention Against Torture, which you can read here and which the USA is signatory to specifically states that all acts and attempted acts of torture must be prosecuted, along with all those complicit with said acts. I was calling for Bush and everyone else in the Pentagon associated with CIA waterboarding to be prosecuted. And I said any US citizen who disagrees is complicit with acts of torture, and therefore under the agreement also deserve to be prosecuted. It should be noted I also noted that the agreement makes it abundantly clear that there is absolutely no defence for torture.

With this in mind, I'll restate this. There is absolutely no justification for lying about the number of civilian casualties in war.

Regards.
 
Meksilon said:
QUESTION? What question? All I said was that "his organization" (ie the organization he works for) should not lie about civilian casualties in Iraq; and that I find the leaking of documents that show the deception of said organization as useful and informative. The fact that these documents contain sensitive operational information could have been prevented if the organization has acted in a more honest way in the first place.

There's no justification for a lot of things, and one of them is torture. On another forum; where our debates are far more heated than anything you would ever find here, for months I drilled this point; everyone on the forum were divided in two; with roughly half supporting what I said, and roughly half supporting the US government. So I'll bring this up anyway.

The UN Convention Against Torture, which you can read here and which the USA is signatory to specifically states that all acts and attempted acts of torture must be prosecuted, along with all those complicit with said acts. I was calling for Bush and everyone else in the Pentagon associated with CIA waterboarding to be prosecuted. And I said any US citizen who disagrees is complicit with acts of torture, and therefore under the agreement also deserve to be prosecuted. It should be noted I also noted that the agreement makes it abundantly clear that there is absolutely no defence for torture.

With this in mind, I'll restate this. There is absolutely no justification for lying about the number of civilian casualties in war.

Regards.
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So you would also want us to agree with the Geneva Convention and let our soldiers be killed? You are just a lonely no one. Australia is isolated from the world of politics and media. Yes, there have been accounts of torture overseas, and they have been given life sentences. What does it matter? A handful of people don't make up our military or government. You are stating that we should do what the UN wants us to do and let ourselves be overrun by anyone who wants to just tread all over us.

Also, there is no clear number of casualties in a war. Any war. Look at Vietnam, World War 1, World War 2. We lost many, so did the enemy. Both sides took a toll and some were even tortured to obtain information. Are you so foolish as to think we live in a perfect world? I respectfully disagree. This world is nowhere close to perfect, which is why I enjoy life.

Our lives are different, yours and mine. We live in two different societies. You may be a hard-working individual who likes to do physical work. Or you may even be a very smart man who takes an office job. I work to keep my way of life. I put my life on the line as a US Soldier. My job? I transport the men and women, as well as supplies and cargo. My friends are dying overseas from gunshots and IEDs. I want this so-called war to end. But I know it won't be fully over. Our presidents seem to believe that we must keep fighting to remove terrorism. All of this time spent overseas could have been avoided if we just stick to our homeland and bring our soldiers' here to protect our friends and families within our own home. Not overseas in some foreign land we should have no control over.

So, while you are disgruntled that the US government can't give an exact number or that you think that torture should have more critical punishments, what of the other nations in the world? Great Britain is also a part of this. As are many other nations apart of the UN. Why pick on the US? Is it because you feel you are insignificant in the world and choose to just criticize others instead of doing something about it yourself? Or is it that you can't help but sit back as the US ideas clash with someone else's?

All-in-all, you are just as insignificant and expendable as I am. What if I die
? No big deal, the world has a replacement for me. What if you die? Same thing. There are people who play a much bigger role in this world than you and I. Those who have money, hold the power. Those who have the power, often abuse what has great responsibility.

What are you going to do? Just keep criticizing the US? Is that all you are good for?
 
Schmarvin said:
Why would he deny the truth?
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Because there were no cameras at the time to generate evidence, leaving it open to pretty much infinite straw man.

Also, define truth.

The 'truth' presented in what most people would consider a reliable source. For most people that is the media, which in reality is what the nearest government wants you to know. It might not necessarily be what really happened.

Like the Wikileaks issue- the US Government has manipulated the media to portray Wikileaks as some kind of terrorist organization instead of the simple conspiracy reporting site that it intended to be.

What's really true in that case? We may never know, as the government will never admit the truth straight up, while wikileaks cannot maintain a reliable source because it gets found and removed too quickly.

Problem is, people are more inclined to believe and obey the government in fear of legal retaliation if they don't. So Wikileaks gets labelled evil in the eyes of the public purely because the government said so. And all of the credit processing companies are reacting to that, terminating business relations in order to save their own necks.
 
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