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Michael Moore backs up all(most) claims in Fahrenheit 9/11.

Wow, I almost forgot how much I hate politics.

Good thing this thread came along.
 
VerticalHost said:
I don't have an attitude. It's just that in EVERY post in every forum. Someone here always, always, always has to try and make someone look bad by asking a question to try and make that poster look stupid and that is exactly what you were trying to do.
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If that's how you're going to interpret it, fine, it's your freedom. You've won my hostility.
 
<off topic>
Just out of interest, would you all agree that America is possibly the only country in the world with such straight line, clear cut political support. This forum alone seems to have plenty of people lining up to be "republicans" or "liberals."
As such, with the exception of a few, Bush is either good or bad, I can't imagine Conscript saying something anti-Bush on any issue any more than I can imagine Robert saying something pro-Bush on any issue.

This compares with the UK where almost literally no-one is a member of a political party, and I suspect where even fewer people would claim total support for any political party. Blair is regarded with cynicism, but an acceptance that living standards are alright, we haven't been nuked and a general acceptance that the opposition doesn't look like doing much better, and as such he might well win his 3rd term.

The reason this seems odd to me is that in the USA there are two main political wings, the right and the further right, whereas in the UK its only really in the last ten years or so that we stopped having a fairly influential left wing party.

Anyway if you're bored of the yah-boo Bush stuff feel free to discuss.
</off topic>
 
loggerheads said:
The reason this seems odd to me is that in the USA there are two main political wings, the right and the further right
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Wha? Are you saying most people are conservative and then there are super conservative?
 
loggerheads said:
<off topic>
Just out of interest, would you all agree that America is possibly the only country in the world with such straight line, clear cut political support. This forum alone seems to have plenty of people lining up to be "republicans" or "liberals."
As such, with the exception of a few, Bush is either good or bad, I can't imagine Conscript saying something anti-Bush on any issue any more than I can imagine Robert saying something pro-Bush on any issue.

This compares with the UK where almost literally no-one is a member of a political party, and I suspect where even fewer people would claim total support for any political party. Blair is regarded with cynicism, but an acceptance that living standards are alright, we haven't been nuked and a general acceptance that the opposition doesn't look like doing much better, and as such he might well win his 3rd term.

The reason this seems odd to me is that in the USA there are two main political wings, the right and the further right, whereas in the UK its only really in the last ten years or so that we stopped having a fairly influential left wing party.

Anyway if you're bored of the yah-boo Bush stuff feel free to discuss.
</off topic>
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Then am I an endangered animal seeing how I'm a liberal and I live in the U.S.?
 
Trust me on this one, ask Tony Benn, any Scandinavian, or me, where the average US Liberal would sit on our left-right political scale and it'd be just right of centre, or centre at best. The US has always been that way and probably always will be. I'm just saying that if you look at the UK in the 1970's there was heated debate because there were clear, major ideological differences between Labour which (to simplify) was for high taxation, some redistribution of wealth and the continuation of nationalised industry, and the Conservatives who (again simplistically) wanted lower taxation and to privatise more or less everything.
I don't see differences of the same magnitude between Kerry and Bush say.
 
just an observation of american potical system that there really isn't anything remotely democatic about. really all you do is vote for one party or the other, wheres the democary in that?, there isn't a choice at all. unless there are some minor parties in the us that i haven't heard about.
 
Gov. Jesse Ventura (the wrestler) said something intelligent when he said that the two party system in the US is only one more party to choose from than Russia's communist party. Then again, at least it's choosing between door A, door B and a little door C (independents) as opposed to just one door.
 
Here is a list of things I don't agree with Bush about:

- Immigration
- Healthcare
- Medicare bill
- Education Policy
- Funding of the NEA
- Campaign Finance Reform
- Government Spending
- Tax Cuts (not big enough)

There are probably more but those are the ones I could think of off of the top of my hat.

The list of things that will make me vote for Bush:

- War on Terror (that includes the War in Iraq as it is all part of the War on Terror
- Economy (I guess some tax cuts are better than none or John Kerry tax increases)
 
Conscript said:
Here is a list of things I don't agree with Bush about:

- Immigration
- Healthcare
- Medicare bill
- Education Policy
- Funding of the NEA
- Campaign Finance Reform
- Government Spending
- Tax Cuts (not big enough)

There are probably more but those are the ones I could think of off of the top of my hat.

The list of things that will make me vote for Bush:

- War on Terror (that includes the War in Iraq as it is all part of the War on Terror
- Economy (I guess some tax cuts are better than none or John Kerry tax increases)
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What about Stem Cell Research? Same-Sex Marriage and Abortion?

Reason Why I'm not voting for Bush:

- He's against Stem Cell
- He's against Same Sex Marriage

I won't add that he lied to this country to get us to go into war and has caused over 16,000 soliders to be killed or injured.


Tax Cuts not big enough? SO where are we gonna pull this money out of? Our ---? We'll continue to have to cut federal funding on programs like Education and Health so you can get a bigger tax cut. We'll also have to give up our SS, as we've already done.
 
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Yes, we should cut education and healthcare. We have given so much money into education that the schools cannot spend it fast enough. And healthcare is no business of the state, they should ease regulations and enact tort reform to drive down costs.

States are getting a reminder from the federal government: Make plans quickly to spend more than $2 billion in education money or be ready to lose it.

...

States then have two final years to spend the money. Ultimately, school money not committed or spent returns to the federal treasury, as happened with $155 million last year.
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http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040629_981.html

I agree with Bush on stem cells, abortion, and gay marriage. Though I am still puzzled about why Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry lied to us, thus helping make the case for war that killed or injured 16,000 Soldiers.

"If you don't believe Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn't vote for me." - John Kerry

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - John Kerry

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." - John Kerry

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." - John Kerry

"I actually did vote for his $87 billion, before I voted against it." - John Kerry

(my favorite)
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Most of them are from http://www.kerryquotes.com/

I can dig up other quotes if you like.

Meanwhile, I suggest everyone who thinks Saddam wasn't a threat to take John Kerry's advice and not vote for Kerry.
 
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jmiller said:
EDIT:

Oops, typo.
Okay, HUGE type, sorry.
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when VerticalHost misspells, he's stupid and can't spell. but when you do it, it's a typo...

besides, it's typo, not type. i didn't know jmiller couldn't spell.
 
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keith said:
when VerticalHost misspells, he's stupid and can't spell. but when you do it, it's a typo...

besides, it's typo, not type. i didn't know jmiller couldn't spell.
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Yes, but I was questioning one's ability to vote now was I?

However, yes I did misspell, and I appologize to VerticalHost.

EDIT:

I'm a "liberal kook" am I?

Way to edit out your personal attack there Keith, but I need not worry, it has not actually been "deleted".
 
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keith said:
when VerticalHost misspells, he's stupid and can't spell. but when you do it, it's a typo...

besides, it's typo, not type. i didn't know jmiller couldn't spell.
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Let's not get ourselves in a rush. Your worried about the wrong thing. I misspell one word and your all over that. Should I be getting onto you for not using the SHIFT key when gramatically necessary? Since when are forums the centerpiece for learning the english language?

My point being, who honestly cares if someone makes a gramatical mistake?
Please explain that to me, I'd like to know why you care so much in a forum that is packed full of people who can't spell.
 
Conscript said:
Yes, we should cut education and healthcare. We have given so much money into education that the schools cannot spend it fast enough. And healthcare is no business of the state, they should ease regulations and enact tort reform to drive down costs.



http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040629_981.html

I agree with Bush on stem cells, abortion, and gay marriage. Though I am still puzzled about why Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry lied to us, thus helping make the case for war that killed or injured 16,000 Soldiers.



Most of them are from http://www.kerryquotes.com/

I can dig up other quotes if you like.

Meanwhile, I suggest everyone who thinks Saddam wasn't a threat to take John Kerry's advice and not vote for Kerry.
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The money that the schools have are from 2002. When Jeb Bush cut our educational funding in FL, Schools start to take notice. When Bush started to cut the funding, they started saving the money because they need to save it. So the money that the schools have isn't because Bush gave them ohh so much, it's because they saved it, or else, we'd be in bigger trouble.

We need to increase educational funding, get rid of the NCLB program, get Ted Bush out of FL and make sure our children are getting a proper education. The math courses the U.S. are far below the standard level of other countries.

As far as John Kerry is concerned, Bush has said some confusing things before as well. A lot of AMericas were FOR the war after 9-11, now are against it. Kerry was for the war, and 87 billion, which has turned into over 120 billion, which he's against. You're quotes are about Saddam, nobody is upset that we took Saddam out. NOBODY. We're upset because first, Bush keeps chaning the objective in Iraq. First it's to find WMD, which fails, so then it turns to Liberate Iraq, which isn't working that much, now it's to help education Iraq.

We're upset because 9-11 was an attack on the U.S. by TERRORISTS, YET, Bush hasn't done NOTHING to assist the war on Terror except INCREASE terrorism throughout the Globe. Why did Powell lie to us in 2001 when he said that Saddam was no threat?

It seems eveyrthing that happens in this war is a lie, a trick, or false:

As the Iraqi regime was collapsing on April 9, 2003, Marines converged on Firdos Square in central Baghdad, site of an enormous statue of Saddam Hussein. It was a Marine colonel — not joyous Iraqi civilians, as was widely assumed from the TV images — who decided to topple the statue, the Army report said. And it was a quick-thinking Army psychological operations team that made it appear to be a spontaneous Iraqi undertaking.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/latimests/armystagemanagedfallofhusseinstatue

Oh and if you wanna throw some quotes around:

"It's your money, you paid for it."
La Crosse, WI 10/18/00

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
Washington, DC 12/18/00

"Arbolist...Look up the word. I don't know, maybe I made it up. Anyway, it's an arbo-tree-ist, someone who knows about trees."
Crawford, TX 8/21/01

"I don't read what's handed to me."
New York, NY 3/15/00

"The Bob Jones policy on interracial dating, I mean I spoke out on interracial dating. I spoke out against that. I spoke out against interracial dating. I support the policy of interracial dating."
CBS News 2/25/00 (My Favorite)

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
Florence, SC 1/11/00
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Quotes taken offf punkvoter.com


http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/newsArticle.asp?id=1782
 
Anyone who speaks in public as often as Bush is bound to misspeak once in a while. I am sure you do that as well.

But anyway, the point of the Kerry quotes is to show you he was EXACTLY on the same page as Bush UNTIL it became politically beneficial to oppose the war. He's a poll man, he has NO PRINCIPLES. When the going gets though, he is NOT willing to stick with what he thinks is right, but instead changes his position so he could win an election.

And the other point of my Kerry quotes was to show you that HE LIED to us about Saddam and his WMDs, thus sending us to war. If you are so upset at Bush for doing it, why aren't you upset at Kerry for doing it?

And yes I know the money is from 2002, that's the point. We are giving so much money into education (and the amount is growing every year) that educrats are not spending it fast enough and are losing it. There is no shortage of money in education, MONEY is NOT the problem. We do no not need to increase the education budget any further, and I am sure we can actually make cuts in it and not feel any difference at all.
 
keith said:
when VerticalHost misspells, he's stupid and can't spell. but when you do it, it's a typo...

besides, it's typo, not type. i didn't know jmiller couldn't spell.
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Wow, you used a capital letter :eek:!

Haven't seen you around here in a while...
 
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