Board Update 4-30-2011
http://taophoenix.ismywebsite.com/ReVisionWhiteMobile.html
We're down to five.
http://taophoenix.ismywebsite.com/ReVisionWhiteMobile.html
We're down to five.
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Time to rebuild my host spread
- Thread starter TaoPhoenix
- Start date
Seraphim
Active Member
That's horrible to wipe out an entire server full of clients because there's a lot of inactive and abusive accounts on it. And deliberately too, not even under circumstances where the data is lost because conditions make it impossible to retrieve.
It doesn't take much to run a script on the server to check the statistics and make a list of all the accounts that are actively used. Could probably cut the list down by 2/3 that way- on mine I watch the bandwidth tabs. Sites that don't use more than a megabyte or so of bandwidth have no traffic to them and can be purged. Sorting legitimate from abusive accounts is a more difficult process, but with all the inactive accounts gone it shouldn't be nearly as much a chore to move servers with very little risk to the clients.
Also, Tao. You might want to look into using .css to make the overall layout of the site. html using tables is considered a somewhat unpredictable way to do layouts, as tables have a habit of scrambling themselves into bizarre shapes if there is a single syntax error.
Though it is certainly working like that, now it looks more organized.
Also I just noticed that the copy with me is not yet updated. It's still using the old data with the phone and wide layouts. Should I try again on getting dropbox working so that it picks up the current copy?
It doesn't take much to run a script on the server to check the statistics and make a list of all the accounts that are actively used. Could probably cut the list down by 2/3 that way- on mine I watch the bandwidth tabs. Sites that don't use more than a megabyte or so of bandwidth have no traffic to them and can be purged. Sorting legitimate from abusive accounts is a more difficult process, but with all the inactive accounts gone it shouldn't be nearly as much a chore to move servers with very little risk to the clients.
Also, Tao. You might want to look into using .css to make the overall layout of the site. html using tables is considered a somewhat unpredictable way to do layouts, as tables have a habit of scrambling themselves into bizarre shapes if there is a single syntax error.
Though it is certainly working like that, now it looks more organized.
Also I just noticed that the copy with me is not yet updated. It's still using the old data with the phone and wide layouts. Should I try again on getting dropbox working so that it picks up the current copy?
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Hiya Seraphim.
It's up to you if you think Dropbox is worth your time, it was just a suggestion.
But I am going back to a mobile design, if nothing else, to slice down the dead links : )
I tink I saw a weird error on FF3.6 with my layout, but it seems to be hiding on me. I'll admit I have zero skillz in web design, I just threw it together. But yeah, pretty bad call on PefectZ's part, they were doing okay. Does it take more than four days to back up the clients? That would have saved them, if they did a Seamless Switch. Instead existing users got punished, and I am especially insulted he didn't post it here. I just finished my press release too.
It's up to you if you think Dropbox is worth your time, it was just a suggestion.
But I am going back to a mobile design, if nothing else, to slice down the dead links : )
I tink I saw a weird error on FF3.6 with my layout, but it seems to be hiding on me. I'll admit I have zero skillz in web design, I just threw it together. But yeah, pretty bad call on PefectZ's part, they were doing okay. Does it take more than four days to back up the clients? That would have saved them, if they did a Seamless Switch. Instead existing users got punished, and I am especially insulted he didn't post it here. I just finished my press release too.
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Seraphim
Active Member
It took me over a week to move all of my clients off when 321host exploded and my VPS with him was on it's deathbed. Good thing I did too, that VPS is no longer responding at all and has probably been shut down for non-payment because with 321host gone I had no way to pay the bill. But that was caused more by excessive server loads and network instability coming from Hostrail. Under good conditions I could have done it in maybe two hours at most- most of the time being file copy.
The time requirement comes down to exactly how much sorting and manual intervention has to be done on top of the somewhat fixed file transfer time. If he has to do a lot of manual fudging of accounts, it might not be practical for some hundred accounts a given server might contain. Especially if he does have a high rate of abusive and inactive accounts in the system, the only sane way to sort the good from the bad is by using scripts to get rid of the initial load of inactives and then manually checking for abusives. It's a lot of work to move servers in that kind of situation.
Virtualmin is nice in the server transfer regard because not only can accounts be migrated on the fly once all the templates are configured, but the templates themselves can be largely ported from server to server avoiding a lot of configuration overhead to the time requirements. I wouldn't doubt CPanel has similar capabilities for migration. But my Virtualmin is operating in para-cluster mode, as right now I can move my clients from server to server as needed limited only by DNS propagation and file copy times.
As far as the site code goes, I noticed what looks like
in the header of the page. Not sure if it is intentional or not, or a comment that is visible where it should not be. But be careful when working with tables, last few times I delt with them before learning CSS layouts I was having a single missed ; in my PHP scramble the entire table by leaving out a </tr>
The time requirement comes down to exactly how much sorting and manual intervention has to be done on top of the somewhat fixed file transfer time. If he has to do a lot of manual fudging of accounts, it might not be practical for some hundred accounts a given server might contain. Especially if he does have a high rate of abusive and inactive accounts in the system, the only sane way to sort the good from the bad is by using scripts to get rid of the initial load of inactives and then manually checking for abusives. It's a lot of work to move servers in that kind of situation.
Virtualmin is nice in the server transfer regard because not only can accounts be migrated on the fly once all the templates are configured, but the templates themselves can be largely ported from server to server avoiding a lot of configuration overhead to the time requirements. I wouldn't doubt CPanel has similar capabilities for migration. But my Virtualmin is operating in para-cluster mode, as right now I can move my clients from server to server as needed limited only by DNS propagation and file copy times.
As far as the site code goes, I noticed what looks like
Code:
<!-- START MASTER TABLE TO STABILIZE PAGE>
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I'll admit I stuck to tables because outside of an inspired weekend I don't have much interest coding. However, this is the first time I've seen that glitch, and it seems to only hit certain versions of browsers. (I want to say Firefox series 3.x, haven't cross-tested. It's not there when I upgraded to 4.0 a while back, and I only saw it too because I downgraded to look at something.)
And you're right, I am due to synch soon. I tend to hold off for months, see what news develops, plus the "idea of the month". But medium-soon (earlier than the next ice age) I need to churn some time into it because the study itself is almost done. Content wise, I have a better handle on my shifting interests. I just only get enough focus to write articles a few times a year on a long weekend.
dmmcintyre3
New Member
perfectz.info had over 3k accounts on the server.
Actually, there was over 5K accounts on his server near the end. Granted, most of them were dormant, but still...
Seraphim
Active Member
It'd take days to sort that many even under the best of conditions, at best you would only be able to remove the dormant ones using scripting.
Yeah 5,000 accounts was roughly what he hosted. I had access to his THT. Tickets were never responded to by him (I saw 2+ week old tickets waiting for a initial response). I'm not surprised he received abuse at all (I seriously doubt he ever checked a single account for malicious activity).
He actually had the nerve to ask me for "temporary" hosting. It's flattering, but there is no way in hell I will host 5,000+ accounts that aren't even remotely monitored - and I won't do the job for him.
He actually had the nerve to ask me for "temporary" hosting. It's flattering, but there is no way in hell I will host 5,000+ accounts that aren't even remotely monitored - and I won't do the job for him.
Well, talkative as he can be, it's interesting too he's not saying anything here. So I am satisfied with my call.
We're down to five. Babblehost is getting the Silent Steady award.
We're down to five. Babblehost is getting the Silent Steady award.
dmmcintyre3
New Member
I remember one time I logged in to root SSH and ran locate .nfo and got like 30 different accounts with nulled scripts (mostly vBulletin and IPB) on them. My rapidleech blocker appeared to work well on his server though.
Colorhost
Sorry Colorhost, you have to join the ranks of the "Alumni". The driving metric of the study was host durability which includes impressions. Ignoring a little of the thread chatter, the big event that sunk you was this from March 5th:
A host can't "threaten to close". Later on you found new resources and/or re-evaluated, but by that point your time "in the marathon" was up. The last bit of points were forfeited when you also missed the cardinal rule of Report Events. A host closing is the highest event there is, and you forced *me* to find it and log it to the thread. For that bitter consolation prize, PerfectZ walked into the same trap.
The entire purpose of this adventure was forged out of livid fury of all the fluffy offers posted, but when trouble hits the sites slink away.
The best I can offer you is best wishes on the renewed resources you found.
Sorry Colorhost, you have to join the ranks of the "Alumni". The driving metric of the study was host durability which includes impressions. Ignoring a little of the thread chatter, the big event that sunk you was this from March 5th:
A host can't "threaten to close". Later on you found new resources and/or re-evaluated, but by that point your time "in the marathon" was up. The last bit of points were forfeited when you also missed the cardinal rule of Report Events. A host closing is the highest event there is, and you forced *me* to find it and log it to the thread. For that bitter consolation prize, PerfectZ walked into the same trap.
The entire purpose of this adventure was forged out of livid fury of all the fluffy offers posted, but when trouble hits the sites slink away.
The best I can offer you is best wishes on the renewed resources you found.
Seriously?
colorhost
Member
Yes, i was being serious.
Hey Tao,
I'm not sure what's going on over at IsMyWebsite, and I have tried to PM the guy here multiple times - but no response.
Basically, he was caught reselling servers over at minecraftforums.net and one of the chat logs contained the following:
I'm not sure if he is implying ismywebsite or not, but it does seem likely considering the website theme change they had a few months ago.
He also got caught reselling our servers and then he tried to claim he was his own company and didn't resell:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1027&t=337150&sid=397c0c594ed0dc2edcbefebd15da9e8e
Just something to check into Tao. We (the staff at Brohoster) don't appreciate people trying to claim credit for our hard work.
I'm not sure what's going on over at IsMyWebsite, and I have tried to PM the guy here multiple times - but no response.
Basically, he was caught reselling servers over at minecraftforums.net and one of the chat logs contained the following:
I'm not sure if he is implying ismywebsite or not, but it does seem likely considering the website theme change they had a few months ago.
He also got caught reselling our servers and then he tried to claim he was his own company and didn't resell:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1027&t=337150&sid=397c0c594ed0dc2edcbefebd15da9e8e
Just something to check into Tao. We (the staff at Brohoster) don't appreciate people trying to claim credit for our hard work.
Lots of the Alumni repaired their businesses and are going on with their ventures. Last I knew you were already ceasing to be a free host, so you lost your grandfathering from way back before you switched your business model. Meanwhile, as I remarked elsewhere, this even more an educational service than raw science. The lesson to take away is that you can't waffle business continutity decisions, and if you do close, there needs to be exit notifications.
Business thoughts
Fair effort Tyler, though I am going to go with a measured response. At a fundamental level business is about acquiring resources and reselling them. The web host/service business is small dollar and fluid enough not to yet be tied up in the strictures that Big Business is wrapped up in. IsMyWebsite is certainly a Meta-Company. They aggregate individual suppliers and provide a marketing front end as well as some community-type layerings. Consider this page: http://www.ismywebsite.net/thanks That is the listing of back end providers.
Web hosting has a lot of vertical supply chains, and customers of vertical supply chained businesses aren't all that often entitled to know the details of the supply chains. It's up to a provider to put in TOS rules if he/they wish to prohibit any down-chaining. There's a little squishy zone about brand-stripping, but there's a whole lot of leeway in "restauranting". If there's no agreement "this is a cheap price for your personal use but you went out and sold it", a businessman acquires an inbound resource, and reworks it as something to sell out. Business #1 has to decide the terms of its offerings completely, and assume the client will then do zany things with that resource. The famous case is of course adult content. A new business forgets to put an anti-adult clause in its TOS, whereupon the client fair and square starts up SexyMilkHosting.com. Business #1 goes "oops" and has to give fair warning "sorry, we botched our TOS, we will have to end the hosting with our apologies."
Next angle: An entrepreneur can do as many things as he wants. I am evaluating the presenter as responsible for his chain. Back in the day you were running a server, and I carefully didn't advertise your down chains or the upchain side of your resell hosts. I let them be their own entities responsible for their chain. Things happened, so a couple entities went down all at once, but so be it.
IsMyWebsite is doing okay as an aggregator. What the same entrepreneur is doing in other ventures is mostly out of my jurisdiction.
Fair effort Tyler, though I am going to go with a measured response. At a fundamental level business is about acquiring resources and reselling them. The web host/service business is small dollar and fluid enough not to yet be tied up in the strictures that Big Business is wrapped up in. IsMyWebsite is certainly a Meta-Company. They aggregate individual suppliers and provide a marketing front end as well as some community-type layerings. Consider this page: http://www.ismywebsite.net/thanks That is the listing of back end providers.
Web hosting has a lot of vertical supply chains, and customers of vertical supply chained businesses aren't all that often entitled to know the details of the supply chains. It's up to a provider to put in TOS rules if he/they wish to prohibit any down-chaining. There's a little squishy zone about brand-stripping, but there's a whole lot of leeway in "restauranting". If there's no agreement "this is a cheap price for your personal use but you went out and sold it", a businessman acquires an inbound resource, and reworks it as something to sell out. Business #1 has to decide the terms of its offerings completely, and assume the client will then do zany things with that resource. The famous case is of course adult content. A new business forgets to put an anti-adult clause in its TOS, whereupon the client fair and square starts up SexyMilkHosting.com. Business #1 goes "oops" and has to give fair warning "sorry, we botched our TOS, we will have to end the hosting with our apologies."
Next angle: An entrepreneur can do as many things as he wants. I am evaluating the presenter as responsible for his chain. Back in the day you were running a server, and I carefully didn't advertise your down chains or the upchain side of your resell hosts. I let them be their own entities responsible for their chain. Things happened, so a couple entities went down all at once, but so be it.
IsMyWebsite is doing okay as an aggregator. What the same entrepreneur is doing in other ventures is mostly out of my jurisdiction.
Babblehost?!
I am getting a bad blip now from Babblehost! Anyone have info?
If it turns out to be indeed a host failure, that will be a trifecta grand slam of hosts vanishing before writing out their exit notes here.
I am getting a bad blip now from Babblehost! Anyone have info?
If it turns out to be indeed a host failure, that will be a trifecta grand slam of hosts vanishing before writing out their exit notes here.
