Gay Rights in the United States

[Riverworld]

Originally posted by Webdude
Oh yeah, I did didnt I! I will put in the part I left off since I assumed it would be obvious. He was drunk too. Duh.

This part is actually very important for the whole story... the person who groped you was void of their gamma aminobutyric acid, which is a very important neurochemical. This person was most probably at fault, but they did not have mental control over their actions at the time of the incident, nor do they represent any group of people. They behaved in a way which was beyond their immediate conscious control because of the depletion of their neurochemicals.

Originally posted by Webdude
It might explain a lot also to mention it wasnt just a normal gay person, this one was one of the fairy types. Part of his mentality was that since he was gay, he had the right to do whatever he wanted.

The fact he is a 'fairy type' has nothing to do with this - how he or anyone else acts, walks, talks, et cetera, should not concern you - if it does, then perhaps you should have a closer look at home before you point at others.

In general, just because you belong to any group does not mean you have the right to do whatever you want - but yet again that's an individual thing based on the person. However, this particular thing has been explained above - his mentality was out, he wouldn't be thinking straight.

Originally posted by Webdude
He was one of those who said I'm "homophobic and that I shouldnt knock it unless I've tried it" [and so on, see above for full quote]... which is just pure stupidity and is also sterotyping on their part..

Yep, it makes me real homophobic to think that packing mud disgusting...
[/B][/QUOTE]

It looks as though bullets have been fired from both ends of the field here - that one person wouldn't have the right to behave in the way they did, yet the way you handled the situation could of perhaps been better.

Imagine there is a group that were trying to remain silent. Once one person makes a noise, others often say "be quiet" or "shut up", hence making more noise. Others would then tell them to be quiet as well, and the cycle would continue. Now, if all were to focus on themselves and make sure they individually didn't make any noise, you would have silence nearly instantaneously.

That analogy can be used for this entire discussion. If people focus on themselves and are not stereotypical of others, and learn to judge someone on their individual merits rather than which group/clique/tribe they belong to, then the majority of these problems would be non-exsistant.

Coming back on topic, we all should be treated fairly and with understanding, but once we start 'grouping' people, then we run into these problems. In the end, it's all about ignorance, which leads to descrimination. That's something we don't need in our world today...

 

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by keith
did you just say the media is undoubtedly right-wing? what?!?! that's about as incorrect a statement as you could make. go do your homework and then come whining to us about your little gay rights lovefest.

I honestly can't see why people continue to call a media that promotes only extreme right-wing commentators like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly "liberal". Where's Michael Moore? Al Franken? While I certainly can't claim to like either figure, I am shocked at the utter lack of left-wing commentators. And all of the major news sources were providing extremely biased views in favor of the War on Iraq, not least of which Faux News. On another liberal forum that I visit, only about 2 or 3 regulars proclaimed their support for the war, only to retract it one or two months later. Most left-wingers have a distrust of the media...that enough says everything about the general political views of the American media.

 

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by striker
Nobody is born a natural homosexual, but they develop the behaviour through bad atmosphere.

And how do you know this? Gays and lesbians continue to insist that they were born this way and that there is nothing they can do to change it. Could they be lying to gain acceptance? Sure they could, but the fact that the other side is represented almost entirely by conservative, religious heterosexuals is not reassuring. I myself realize that I am not a homosexual and that I do not know whether it is natural or not, so I believe that the safest bet is to take their word for it.

Oh yeah, I did didnt I! I will put in the part I left off since I assumed it would be obvious. He was drunk too. Duh.

And did you not deem this aspect of your story important, Webdude? I'm just going to forget all the assumptions you have made about all homosexuals just because of this one case study, and even then, there are flaws with your argument. What right do you have to determine the normal disposition and nature of this person when this person clearly had no control of his senses. In fact, a straight person might even have assaulted you, given the circumstances! Actually, women are sexually exploited by drunken (and even sober) men all the time, but you don't see a feminist movement to limit the rights of straight men or anything.

 

[striker]

Just to clear things up, I read that homosexuality is not genetic in a book written by M.D. Giorgio Lolli called "Tuned in Or Turned Off" and since I was teen when reading it and I thought the book was old, You could argue that the information is outdated etc. (1969).

It also says here :

No. There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is simply "genetic." And none of the research claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in sound bites to the public

If you dont think the site is a good source, OK, Im not telling you to believe what I do or anything, just stating facts that I saw before is all.

And once again, sorry to any I may have offended.

 

[Webdude]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
And did you not deem this aspect of your story important, Webdude? I'm just going to forget all the assumptions you have made about all homosexuals just because of this one case study, and even then, there are flaws with your argument. What right do you have to determine the normal disposition and nature of this person when this person clearly had no control of his senses. In fact, a straight person might even have assaulted you, given the circumstances! Actually, women are sexually exploited by drunken (and even sober) men all the time, but you don't see a feminist movement to limit the rights of straight men or anything.

No I didnt since I assumed it was obvious since we were in a club parking lot. I dont go around grabbing the butts and crotches of females, and hence I dont expect it to be done to me....especially by gays who have clearly been told I am not interested. And no the guy wasnt straight since he was wanting to give me a bj.....and if he was straight, he'd be the first straight fairy I have ever met. And yes I do have the right to judge someone when they are hitting on me and grabbing my crotch, so dont give me that lame crap. Maybe "you" would give in and let him do to you what he wants, I dont.

I also agree with striker that it's not genetic. If we let that go, next thing will be that pedophiles (plus murderers, rapist, drunks, druggies, etc, etc) and others are now genetic also. Actually, watching the discovery or learning channel (or something) they are already saying that a person is more likely to murder or not depending on their genetics......and it all started with gays saying they were born gay, and then some oddball saying he found a gay gene....gimme a break. What about the people who hate gays, were they born that way? Is there a "gay hate" gene? Gay is a "lifestyle" not a genetic makeup like black, asian, mexican, white, whatever.

If it's against the rules for me to go up and grab a womans crotch, then dont you think those same rules should be applied to gays? Are they special and above the moral rules just because they are gay?? I have a problem with their lifestyle and think it's disgusting and stomach turning. However, I have accepted that others can live their lives the way they want without my judgement. The problem is, most of them expect us to understand enough to become part of it, which is one thing I wont do. They can keep their damned hands to themselves.... which, they gay friends I have respect my views and opinions....and I understand that some of them think sex with women is disgusting.. but if we stay away from discussing our lifestyles and sit around enjoying a beer and a ball game, everything is fine..

 

[jason]

Originally posted by Webdude
No I didnt since I assumed it was obvious since we were in a club parking lot. I dont go around grabbing the butts and crotches of females, and hence I dont expect it to be done to me....especially by gays who have clearly been told I am not interested. And no the guy wasnt straight since he was wanting to give me a bj.....and if he was straight, he'd be the first straight fairy I have ever met. And yes I do have the right to judge someone when they are hitting on me and grabbing my crotch, so dont give me that lame crap. Maybe "you" would give in and let him do to you what he wants, I dont.

you are generalizing a whole group of ppl based on one incident. is that really fair? women don't go around grabbing guys asses. yet it happens to them on a regular basis. my sister in toronto gets guys on a regular basis walking up to her right off the street asking to her to give them blow jobs. why should she have to put up with that?

I also agree with striker that it's not genetic. If we let that go, next thing will be that pedophiles (plus murderers, rapist, drunks, druggies, etc, etc) and others are now genetic also. Actually, watching the discovery or learning channel (or something) they are already saying that a person is more likely to murder or not depending on their genetics......and it all started with gays saying they were born gay, and then some oddball saying he found a gay gene....gimme a break. What about the people who hate gays, were they born that way? Is there a "gay hate" gene? Gay is a "lifestyle" not a genetic makeup like black, asian, mexican, white, whatever.

thats a pretty terrible comparison. you can't compare crimes to homosexuality. pedophilia, rape, ect are non consentual and genetic or not, won't ever be something socially accepted.

If it's against the rules for me to go up and grab a womans crotch, then dont you think those same rules should be applied to gays? Are they special and above the moral rules just because they are gay?? I have a problem with their lifestyle and think it's disgusting and stomach turning. However, I have accepted that others can live their lives the way they want without my judgement. The problem is, most of them expect us to understand enough to become part of it, which is one thing I wont do. They can keep their damned hands to themselves.... which, they gay friends I have respect my views and opinions....and I understand that some of them think sex with women is disgusting.. but if we stay away from discussing our lifestyles and sit around enjoying a beer and a ball game, everything is fine..

i've responded to most of that comment above, but on another note. if you think gays are the only ones who engage in anal sex. well you are quite wrong. anal sex among hetrosexual couples is quite common and if you watched any porno lately, you'll find it in almost every movie.

 

[awayfromforum]

Why is being gay so controversial? If the US is supposedly such a free country, why the hell cant gays and lesbians mary and adopt children.

O here is something that might scare you, our gym teacher in high school is gay, and coaches football. He is still allowed in the mens locker room, he just is not allowed to make any comments on how someone looks.

And personally, i dont see what is wrong with it. I got a several gay friends, and they just hit on each other, but anyone that is not gay they just leave alone. Ive been to a gay in Amsterdam (I'm Dutch), and one person hit on me, and i said that i was straight, and for the rest of the night i was not bothered, i wasnt kicked out or anything.

I dont think it matters if a person is gay or not, its that way, and i have no intention to limit them. I dont know if being gay is a state of mind, but if it is, isnt being straight a state of mind as well? Or if being straight is in the gene pool, then so would being gay? Personally i think that if straight people can get married and adopt kids, or produce them themselves, i think gay people should be allowed to get married and adopt kids.

As i said i have friends that are gay, and they have gotten beat up over it a million and one times. In my school this used to happen on a day by day basis. Since the new principal, it has been almost elimated, only random slurs, as he doesnt not tolerate any kind of racism/showing you hate a specific group of people.

If being gay is a disease, then how does it spread? Why does it spread? What is the anti-dote, or medicine to cure this? This theory is almost certainly bullshit.

Since some people here say gay people should be treated differently, i want to ask why? They arnt any different except they like the same sex. So what? How would YOU feel if you were gay and were reading this thread? All we got so far is replies from people that are not gay.

I also know a person that is gay that comes from an extreme christian family, he has had feelings for people of the same sex for ever, and had to try to discourage it, but couldnt, he had told his family, and they got counseling and everything, and yet he still likes the same sex, he has also gone out with girls, but he is primarily attracted to men. There is nothing wrong with him, he can still do the same things that any straight man can do as well.

Considering this, i think that anyone that is agains gay's needs to go look at his or her community better. In your church you go to, there might even possibly be a gay person attending.

What about the infamous men double standard as my friends call it. Most straight guys have fantisies about having sex with 2 girls, and it turns them on to see 2 hot chicks kissing. But when they see 2 gay people enjoying the company of each other, all of the sudden it just seems wrong, just disgusting, not right, and not allowed. (Note: paragraph meant for men only)

To answer whoever asked this qeustion:

Yes i would hire a drunk, as long as he is sober when he is in my store. Its better to let him earn the money than to have him steal it from someone. I would not dare to limit to whoever i want, i would limit it to what they could do, and since a sober drunk could almost certainly clean floors or something, he could apply for that job since he is qualified.

 

[LeX]

What does anal sex have anything to do with this? :confused2


I respect gays and whatever they do, as long as they don't try to influence others to be like them and don't "hit" me, as Webdude calls it.

And most importantly, don't raise kids.

Some of you are thinking maybe it won't harm the kid if he's brought up in a gay family, but that's easy for you to say. You didn't grow up with one. And you think that it's okay now, because you were raised by a normal (by means of sex) family, and grown up to be able to look at this issue and have your say about it, but I'm pretty sure you would have a very different view if you were brought up by homos.

I don't believe we have the right to allow gays to have kids. Like I said before, that's so unfair for the children. What if they don't want to have gay parents? Unless they were given the choice to choose...

 

[jason]

Originally posted by LeX
What does anal sex have anything to do with this? :confused2


I respect gays and whatever they do, as long as they don't try to influence others to be like them and don't "hit" me, as Webdude calls it.

And most importantly, don't raise kids.

Some of you are thinking maybe it won't harm the kid if he's brought up in a gay family, but that's easy for you to say. You didn't grow up with one. And you think that it's okay now, because you were raised by a normal (by means of sex) family, and grown up to be able to look at this issue and have your say about it, but I'm pretty sure you would have a very different view if you were brought up by homos.

I don't believe we have the right to allow gays to have kids. Like I said before, that's so unfair for the children. What if they don't want to have gay parents? Unless they were given the choice to choose...

webdude brought up that 'mud packing' was disgusting, and being gay is disgusting to him, and i just felt like pointing out that anal sex is not something strictly limited to homosexuals. as for guys raising children, i dont know what to think about that. it could be good or bad, depending on the ppl but whats worse? a kid being raised by to loving parents who happen to be the same sex? or an abusive broken home whos parents don't really give a shit.

 

[striker]

Originally posted by jason

thats a pretty terrible comparison. you can't compare crimes to homosexuality. pedophilia, rape, ect are non consentual and genetic or not, won't ever be something socially accepted.

I don't know about you, but I always hear things like this from respectable people"

"It starts with you just stealing a small pennycandy, then you may be tempted to steal a chocolate bar, than a few more chocolate bars, then maybe a pair of pants, and before you know it your robbing cars"

this is just an example, a poor one I'll admit, and it is ofcourse ludacris to think that stealing pennycandies and cars can be compared, but I think that webdude was trying to get a similar point across. He was not pointing out that gays were a menace to society.

 

[LeX]

Originally posted by jason
as for guys raising children, i dont know what to think about that. it could be good or bad, depending on the ppl but whats worse? a kid being raised by to loving parents who happen to be the same sex? or an abusive broken home whos parents don't really give a shit.

That's just a best-case and worst-case scenario... you can't judge things that way. You should look at it from the same starting point, for instance, suppose both gay and straight families are loving and caring.

The child-abuse family case isn't about being gay or not anymore. That's a completely different social issue.

 

[Peo]

I think the whole concept of "they choose an alternative life style" is bullshit. Gays don't choose to be gays, they are simply attracted to the same sex. It's really as simple as that. I haven't choosen to be attracted to girls. I just am attracted to girls. Simple as that.

Here are some really good movies about being gay if you have problems understandig this:

Show me love
Boys don't cry

 

[LeX]

You can go and like, love, have sex with a person of the same sex for all I care, but I still don't approve of same-sex couples raising children. That's a serious problem. It's no longer a simple matter about what you like.

 

[Wojtek]

I was eating a pizza once at a store.
Then came in this gay couple in.

They sat down at a table and started to make out. like HEAVYLY. c'mon, one on the other's lap and they kissed and kissed and one started to put his hand in the other's pants and stared to do nasty thing. It went on and on for like half and hour.

Because of that I stoped feeling hungry and left almost wanting to throw my pizza in their face.

HELLO THERE! Knok Knok, anyone in there?
Dont ----ing make out in a public place like that. You can put your gay pride up your ---. A lil more and they'd start to blow each other in the store. stupid gays.

I dont have a problem with them living their gayness in private, just dont show the whole wide world that your gay. we dont give a crap.

As for them having kids... pfff, never.


Anyone noticed this tread is only about male gays. I suppose female lesbians know how to behave, not like some male morons.

 

[Robert]

Originally posted by Wojtek

Anyone noticed this tread is only about male gays. I suppose female lesbians know how to behave, not like some male morons.

That's because this thread is entirely made up of males who apparently are homophobic.

As far as my opinion? I don't have a problem with those who are born with the urge to have any sexual feelings towards the same sex. I don't see it being "nasty" or "Gross", it doesn't alter the way they think, and it certainly doesn't make them less human and it does NOT Hinder their intelligence.

However, in the society we live in, it's common for a male to hit on a female, however, it's not common for a male to hit on a male, unless you are in certain area, ie. club.

Presentation wise? Most people just don't like the way they act. Maybe because the person who doesn't like gay people is either (1) insecure of their sexuality (oh boy, now how many people are gonna reply?) or (2) do not have a stable mind to be able to comprhend the concept of a "woman" in a man's body.

Should homosexuals raise children? The question here isn't, can they, of course they can. Should they? No. Why? Why should the child have to go through elementary, middle and high school puting up with people making fun of him or her. It's bad enough they don't know who their real father/mother is, should we bring more pain to them?

 

[stabme]

Originally posted by striker
homosexuality is a disease. Nobody is born a natural homosexual, but they develop the behaviour through bad atmosphere. To be gay is just different, and I hope you can agree with me on that.

Actually, homosexuality is not a disease or condition. It's actually genetical. It depends how much masculanity is given to you by the sex-chromosomes. It's the same thing with hermaphrodites. Do they want to be hermaphrodites? No. It was genetical. Homosexuality is like what happens for hermaphrodites, except they just have the tendencies and behavior of being attracted to the same sex (they dont get different physical masculanities, etc...).

Being homosexuality isn't a choice. It's genetic. Somethings environment will make someone think they're gay, because of the norms of their environment, or others might think someone is gay because of the norms of their environment, but they could easily be either bisexual or actually straight. You can't choose your sexuality or change it. You can only change how you react to it or what you do with it and live with it.


about homosexuals not being able to adopt children.. i believe that female homosexuals are allowed to adopt. or, atleast, they can inject sperm into themselves so they can get pregnant and raise a child. however, male homosexuals don't have this luxury.

 

[7trax]

Originally posted by Robert
That's because this thread is entirely made up of males who apparently are homophobic.

there is a large difference between being afraid of gays and not liking gays. just because i dont like pencils doesnt mean i cringe in fear every time i see a pencil, i dont run away and cry, nor do i start screaming hysterically. this thread is entirely made up of males who apparently dont like homosesxuals.

Should homosexuals raise children? The question here isn't, can they, of course they can. Should they? No. Why? Why should the child have to go through elementary, middle and high school puting up with people making fun of him or her. It's bad enough they don't know who their real father/mother is, should we bring more pain to them?

assuming they will be made fun of.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

as for the 'gay disease', my opinion is that homosexuality starts out as genetical, where every one is born bisexual. but through childhood experience, one's orientation is subsided by differing events in one's life. like a kid who is neglected, abused, anti-social, shy, never exactly exposed to females would gradually become less heterosexual. a kid who excels socially steers away from homosexuality. those that are subjected to a little of both sides stay bisexual. but because of modern day society and suppressing views, the mindset is altered from the original.

 

[Riverworld]

That sounds partially like Carl Jung's theory 7trax... but in another sense it isn't. Here's what a text book I have lying around says:

The anima and animus refer to Jung's recognition that humans are essentially bisexual. On the biological level, each sex secretes the hormones of the other sex as well as those of its own sex. On the psychological level, each sex manifests characteristics, temperaments, and attitudes of the other sex by virtue of centuries of living together. The psyche of the women contains masculine aspects (the animus archetype), and the psyche of the man contains the female aspects (the anima archetype).

 

[Webdude]

Originally posted by jason

thats a pretty terrible comparison. you can't compare crimes to homosexuality. pedophilia, rape, ect are non consentual and genetic or not, won't ever be something socially accepted.

Striker got the point across. At one time, the actions of homosexuality were crimes. Back then people also said "homosexuality won't ever be something socially accepted"

So...where does it stop? At pedophiles? Burglars? Drunks? Robbers? Murderers? Druggies? Look at ALL the things that were considered serious 40 years ago, and look at them now. Those things arent quite so bad in younger modern eyes because we have gotten used to them. Mark my words, one day, we will be so used to pedophiles that it will then be said "It is the child's choice". I will be there to say it is wrong and disgusting.....and people will argue with me the same way as they argue with me about homosexuality.. Homosexuality may not be a crime now...but it was. Just because other things still are, doesnt mean that wont change. As we get used to the lower crimes and come to accept them, the harsher crimes wont seem so bad.

That's just an example of taking a harsher stance than I actually believe.....I certainly dont believe homosexuality is a crime....though I probably would have 40 years ago.. But I dont believe they should raise children and raise them to most likely be gay, and perhaps be dicriminate against straights as I have so often seen.

 

[awayfromforum]

Originally posted by 7trax
<snip>

this thread is entirely made up of males who apparently dont like homosesxuals.

<snip>

Sorry, but i am not homophobic. I have a brother who is gay, and admits it, and i have several gay friends.

At the person above who got disgusted at the fact that 2 gay guys were making out, look at it again, but instead imagine it being 2 chicks, and i dont think youd be disgusted at all, or would you?