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The Bible
- Thread starter conkermaniac
- Start date
Phyxisus, I think many of us would appreciate it if you'd stop saying things are 'bullshit', ok?
Conk: The Old Testament has many, many, many, many rules. I don't believe in most of them, and neither does any other Christian I know. When was the last time you heard of a Christian sacrificing something? No. Not many people know it, at least people of other religions, but Christians think, for the most part, thus; that the Old Testament is nice, and there's some important stuff in there, but the New Testament is more important, because Jesus came and abolished half the rules of Judaism (or however you spell it) and established some new rules. Now, according to the pastor, you shouldn't think that there's an importance difference between the Testaments, but in most Christian's minds, I believe, there is.
As to evolution and the Big Bang, scientists keep that theory up because they can't think of a better one. They are now stumped as to how the newly-discovered Planet "Methuselah" can even exist, since it was created, they believe, only a billion years after the Big Bang...far to early in their minds, as the 'stuff' of the universe hadn't came together to form planets yet, so goes the theory. What, we have to push back the age of the universe...again??
Conk: The Old Testament has many, many, many, many rules. I don't believe in most of them, and neither does any other Christian I know. When was the last time you heard of a Christian sacrificing something? No. Not many people know it, at least people of other religions, but Christians think, for the most part, thus; that the Old Testament is nice, and there's some important stuff in there, but the New Testament is more important, because Jesus came and abolished half the rules of Judaism (or however you spell it) and established some new rules. Now, according to the pastor, you shouldn't think that there's an importance difference between the Testaments, but in most Christian's minds, I believe, there is.
As to evolution and the Big Bang, scientists keep that theory up because they can't think of a better one. They are now stumped as to how the newly-discovered Planet "Methuselah" can even exist, since it was created, they believe, only a billion years after the Big Bang...far to early in their minds, as the 'stuff' of the universe hadn't came together to form planets yet, so goes the theory. What, we have to push back the age of the universe...again??
The problem is that most Christians pick and choose stuff that they like from the Old Testmant and reject the stuff that they don't like. Even though Leviticus condemns both homosexuality and eating shellfish, Christians cite the former, yet they disobey the latter.
You want some New Testament contradictions? Well, here you go!
You might know that Matthew, the first chapter of the New Testament, begins with a meaningless genealogy (1:1-1:16) that in fact disagrees with Luke's version of the genealogy from David (3:23-31). However, the Bible tells us not to listen to genealogies. So should we not listen to the Bible?
1 Tim 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies."
1 Titus 3:9 "Avoid foolish questions and genealogies."
Jesus, in fact, wants good Christians to follow ALL of the perverted laws in the Old Testament. In Matthew 5:17, he says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets."
He also considers looking at a woman with lust "adultery". Matthew 5:29 "That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her committed adultery with her already in his heart."
Here's a rule that most Christians blatantly disregard. Don't pray in public. (Matthew 6:5-6)
Jesus came to earth to bring war and violence, as in Matthew 10:34, he says, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
Jesus was also conceited and arrogant. When the Pharisees criticized him for not washing his hands before eating, he rebuked them for not killing disobedient children. So here, not only is he upholding a heartless Old Testament law, but he is setting a great example for Christians -- when someone says that you did something wrong, find something wrong with them. (15:4-7) He also condemns cities to hell simply because they didn't feel like listening to his dreadful preaching. (Matthew 11:20-24)
Apparently, anyone who is dumb or blind or suffering from epilepsy is possessed by devils. (Matthew 12:22, 17:15)
And that's just Matthew! You can find tons of contradictions between Matthew and other chapters of the New Testament. I recommend starting here: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/contra_list.html
You want some New Testament contradictions? Well, here you go!
You might know that Matthew, the first chapter of the New Testament, begins with a meaningless genealogy (1:1-1:16) that in fact disagrees with Luke's version of the genealogy from David (3:23-31). However, the Bible tells us not to listen to genealogies. So should we not listen to the Bible?
1 Tim 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies."
1 Titus 3:9 "Avoid foolish questions and genealogies."
Jesus, in fact, wants good Christians to follow ALL of the perverted laws in the Old Testament. In Matthew 5:17, he says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets."
He also considers looking at a woman with lust "adultery". Matthew 5:29 "That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her committed adultery with her already in his heart."
Here's a rule that most Christians blatantly disregard. Don't pray in public. (Matthew 6:5-6)
Jesus came to earth to bring war and violence, as in Matthew 10:34, he says, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
Jesus was also conceited and arrogant. When the Pharisees criticized him for not washing his hands before eating, he rebuked them for not killing disobedient children. So here, not only is he upholding a heartless Old Testament law, but he is setting a great example for Christians -- when someone says that you did something wrong, find something wrong with them. (15:4-7) He also condemns cities to hell simply because they didn't feel like listening to his dreadful preaching. (Matthew 11:20-24)
Apparently, anyone who is dumb or blind or suffering from epilepsy is possessed by devils. (Matthew 12:22, 17:15)
And that's just Matthew! You can find tons of contradictions between Matthew and other chapters of the New Testament. I recommend starting here: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/contra_list.html
Excelex.net
New Member
I am unable to decide whether i belive in god or not,
If he does exist he has put my through 24 years of pure hell,
THe bible i think carries good messages and morals while it tends
to mislead people, I think the people who wrote the bible wrote it
as a story not as a holy book, I think that the bible is just one big story like "The little engine that could", I have read the bible several times trying to understand it.
The bible and god is and always will be a controversial subject,
While i dont beilive in it i want to raise my children to do so, I think that faith is an amazing thing and I regret to say i've lost it.
As the bible is paranormal I have seen paranormal things, ghosts and shit.
As people say," Can you feel the wind?, Yes, But can you see it?,No, But its there isnt it?" That quote fits the bible perfectly.
If he does exist he has put my through 24 years of pure hell,
THe bible i think carries good messages and morals while it tends
to mislead people, I think the people who wrote the bible wrote it
as a story not as a holy book, I think that the bible is just one big story like "The little engine that could", I have read the bible several times trying to understand it.
The bible and god is and always will be a controversial subject,
While i dont beilive in it i want to raise my children to do so, I think that faith is an amazing thing and I regret to say i've lost it.
As the bible is paranormal I have seen paranormal things, ghosts and shit.
As people say," Can you feel the wind?, Yes, But can you see it?,No, But its there isnt it?" That quote fits the bible perfectly.
Just to counter Conk and his belief in blatant lies from a site that re-writes verses from the Bible to suit their own needs since they know their audience wont actually go read the real thing...
Matthew 15:4-7 in no way says "When the Pharisees criticized him for not washing his hands before eating, he rebuked them for not killing disobedient children."
it says:::
All the others are just as misinterpreted. Please Conk, if you are going to try and give the Bible a bad name, how about quoting directly from it instead of from other people. The Pharisees were more concerned about appearance than the inside of a man. Neither did he say ever say a word about killing children.
Matthew 15:4-7 in no way says "When the Pharisees criticized him for not washing his hands before eating, he rebuked them for not killing disobedient children."
it says:::
All the others are just as misinterpreted. Please Conk, if you are going to try and give the Bible a bad name, how about quoting directly from it instead of from other people. The Pharisees were more concerned about appearance than the inside of a man. Neither did he say ever say a word about killing children.
Joining a bit late here but this is another case where you have to read the book before you criticize it. I'm not a pastor nor am I religious expert by any means so I won't try debate points one by one with you.
I will however mention a few basic beliefs after reviewing different religions and reading on the topic. Regardless of the religion you will probably find things that you find odd / disagree with. However, when you study the religions overall message I think most would agree that religions better the community. Not just by providing a moral base of things to do and not to do but also by providing aid for those who need it. Soup kitchens, delivering food to the elderly, helping out members in times of emergencies, organizing followers to volunteer to help others, providing a social gathering place, etc...
I will however mention a few basic beliefs after reviewing different religions and reading on the topic. Regardless of the religion you will probably find things that you find odd / disagree with. However, when you study the religions overall message I think most would agree that religions better the community. Not just by providing a moral base of things to do and not to do but also by providing aid for those who need it. Soup kitchens, delivering food to the elderly, helping out members in times of emergencies, organizing followers to volunteer to help others, providing a social gathering place, etc...
The Matthew geneology does NOT contradict Luke's. Matthew goes on from Solomon, David's son, while Luke goes from Nathan, also David's son. David had 10, 11 wives for pete's sake, he had more than one son.
What Paul is saying here is, don't take a grudge further down generations. Genealogies were used, of course, to determine who was who's son. They could (COULD) also have been used to settle things like land disputes (Zoab son of Whozatab owned this land 7 generations ago!). Notice the context of fables and foolish laws.
Read on:
18: For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19: Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Note commandments. There are only 10 commandments, then other rules that God set up for the Jews, and phony rules that the Pharasees [sp] set up for the Jews as they got all caught up in the laws that God gave them.
So?
*sigh*
What it's saying is, don't prance around and wave your hands and make everyone notice that you're good and you're nice and you're holy because you're praying. It's a metaphor.
Read on:
35: For I have some to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,' and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household' (Micah 7:6, in single-quotation marks.)
37: He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38: And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39: He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.
Now, going on a verse-by-verse commentary: you seem to be upholding the Old Testament, Conk, at least until now. But Jesus quotes Micah...
As for verse 37, well yeah. You have to give up EVERYTHING. That's kind of the whole point.
Same goes for 38. As for 39, he's obviously not speaking literally. If you keep all your worldliness, your old 'life' then you'll never find eternal life in heaven. However, if you drop everything for God then He will reward you.
God struck down cities in the OT for not listening to him...
They were demon-possesed men, and as a side affect were blind and mute.
While only having skimmed half the posts (and half of the posts)...notnamed gives an example that summarizes the Bible. He gives his interpretation of the text.
Now, this may be somewhat...ironic, but here is the definition of interpret:
I hope you see where I am going with this, and where others in this thread have said...The Bible, and other holy books, are not "a set of rules to be followed blindly". They are guiding words.
Now, this may be somewhat...ironic, but here is the definition of interpret:
I hope you see where I am going with this, and where others in this thread have said...The Bible, and other holy books, are not "a set of rules to be followed blindly". They are guiding words.
No one said you had to follow the bible down to the letter. Like it has been stated earlier in this thread, it isn't a way to live life, but it is some sort of aid in making choices, or something like it.
Which leads on to the Jews and the Torah. I used to go to a religious school, it wasn't full on religious in banning Harry Potthead and such, but it did teach students about christianity and other religions. This is where I learnt about the existence of the Torah. As I remember, the director said that a lot of the Torah appeared jumbled and weird, much like the Bible. It is left open to interpretation. There was one law in the Torah saying you cannot go outside the fence of your house on the Sabbath day or something, I know there was a law like it. A lot of Jews near the suburb of St Kilda interpret this law and say the power lines are their fences and they do not leave that boundary on that certain day. Obviously I've seen these people and they are definately full-on, dedicated Jews. Does it mean their full of bullshit? No. They used the laws as guides and interpreted it as they saw fit, and people should too with the bible. Bah, that's why I'm at a state school now, I never understood religion.
As for anyone who thinks its bullshit, go shove a bible up your ---. I don't believe in it, but it doesn't mean I go around calling it bullshit.
According to Matthew, Jacob was the father of Joseph, who was the father of Jesus. According to Luke, Heli was the father of Joseph. Now, David may have had many wives, but Joseph certainly did NOT have two fathers.
So you're telling me that Christians don't have to follow those crappy rules in the OT? Then explain to me why Christians use those weird Old Testament laws to condemn homosexuals.
If you watch a movie and happen to like that actress, you've already committed adultery.
He clearly tells his disciples not to go to the synagogue and pray. Why should some things be taken metaphorically while others be taken literally?
You're supposed to give up your family for Jesus. You're also supposed to always listen to your parents. Something doesn't check here...
What a merciful god!
God thinks that blindness and deafness is caused by demons. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks that's just plain silly.
Webdude, you might find it helpful to read the correct scripture.
1: Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2: Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3: But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4: For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
I'm sorry shizzle...I was typing up a response to you yesterday, and then stupid AOL disconnected me. I gave up. I have to go out now, but I will respond to you later.
"Not all the contradictions are due to copying errors. One such example is the supposed contradiction between the two genealogies of Jesus, one recorded in Matthew 1 and the other recorded in Luke 3. But this can be easily explained if one recognizes that Matthew traces Jesus' genealogy through Joseph (Jesus' legal but not actual father), and Luke traces Jesus' genealogy through Mary, Jesus' actual mother. Both are important in establishing that Jesus was qualified to be the Messiah, for the Old Testament predicted that the Messiah must be a descendant of David. Matthew shows that legally Jesus descended from David through the royal line, and Luke shows that his actual physical descent also was from David through Nathan."
http://wings.buffalo.edu/religious/ministries/international/Page26.html
This seems to be the widely accepted definition.
I'm saying Christians don't have to follow the RULES. They have to follow the LAWS, as in the ones that God set up. Not the ones that the Pharasees [sp] made up for themselves.
Lust and like are two different words, Conk. You can like or even love an actress as long as it is not sexual lust.
Because some things are SAID metaphorically and some literally, perhaps?
If God tells you, leave your parents and go do this, you do it. You can honor your parents in that...if your parents are Christian too, they should understand that God is to be followed above people, and you're honoring them by following the stuff that they lead you to learn.
Indeed. When people are given chances and don't take them, that's their fault. Sometimes God is more patient with some...the Jews, for instance...but not with others (one chance for Ninevah.) You'll notice God was merciful to them.
Where does it say that? It does not say that. It says, "men possessed by demons, blind and mute;..."
Yup. A quote of Exodus 20:12. You break a commandment, Conk, you get punished for it.
Webdude, you might find it helpful to read the correct scripture.
1: Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2: Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3: But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4: For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Yes, in fact, that is what most Christians have told me. My question is, however, why the Bible does not say Mary instead of Joseph, and why Eliakim, Salathiel, and Zorobabel are common to both lists, except they are in different places. I originally thought that they were different people, but they don't seem like very common names.
So do you eat shellfish? Do you follow all of the OT laws (don't worry shizzle, I haven't forgotten you
)?I think that most men like actresses on the basis of lust.
But how do we know what is metaphorical? The above scripture might as well be literal.
But if they are not Christian? The Bible does not say "Obey your parents only if they are Christian." It says, "Obey your parents," period.
So is he not impartial?
Sounds to me like the demons were causing the problems.
So were you killed when you didn't listen to your parents?
Two more questions...does God know everything? And what makes your religion any more right than another religion?
I dont think God is "just" the god of Christianity. He says in the Bible He has gone by many names. I think as long as you acknowledge there is a higher power than yourself (human)...well, I guess it depends on what you believe of it.
As for a son having to follow God instead of his parent..... if you have a dog that has puppies, once those puppies reach a certain age, do you expect the puppy to obey you? Or it's parent? You are the higher being, it should obey you. Of course, I know you will dig into that one, but it's the best example I could think of in a hurry.
As for God being partial, or any higher being with so much power over us, he can pretty much do whatever he wants. And you wanna know what? There's not a thing you can do about it.
As for whether the Bible is real or not, how do you explain the amazingly accurate Book of Revelation? It explains out a nuclear war. It also explains (and Christians have been waiting to see this one for hundreds of years) how in Europe, many countries would form a common market and eventually all use the same currency. Sound like anything you know? It also says one man will rise into power over those countries.
You dont have to be Christian, or even religious to believe in what the Bible says. It gives history, it also seems to give an accurate view of the future. As we get closer to those times, we find it is not God doing all the destruction (as was believed back then), it is man himself, and his weapons of war. Now the technology is here, we recognize the technology in the scripts, and have a closer understanding of what Revelation is saying than people even 100 years ago did.
Anyway, I have to take off, so I cant go into more detail.
As for a son having to follow God instead of his parent..... if you have a dog that has puppies, once those puppies reach a certain age, do you expect the puppy to obey you? Or it's parent? You are the higher being, it should obey you. Of course, I know you will dig into that one, but it's the best example I could think of in a hurry.
As for God being partial, or any higher being with so much power over us, he can pretty much do whatever he wants. And you wanna know what? There's not a thing you can do about it.
As for whether the Bible is real or not, how do you explain the amazingly accurate Book of Revelation? It explains out a nuclear war. It also explains (and Christians have been waiting to see this one for hundreds of years) how in Europe, many countries would form a common market and eventually all use the same currency. Sound like anything you know? It also says one man will rise into power over those countries.
You dont have to be Christian, or even religious to believe in what the Bible says. It gives history, it also seems to give an accurate view of the future. As we get closer to those times, we find it is not God doing all the destruction (as was believed back then), it is man himself, and his weapons of war. Now the technology is here, we recognize the technology in the scripts, and have a closer understanding of what Revelation is saying than people even 100 years ago did.
Anyway, I have to take off, so I cant go into more detail.
This is a debate I like to put to other people also, couldnt resist. Figure he's either all powerful, or all knowing, but not both.
A) If all knowing:::
He would know the limit to his power.
B) If all powerful:::
He wouldnt know the limit to his own power.
Can he possibly be both?
(Couldnt resist that one, but really got to go now...)
