The Bible

[quantum4]

I am sorry but I am no longer going to discuss with you.

You have proven to be stubborn and rather offensive towards me.

I hope you are ashamed of yourself. I also presented evidence disproving your statements.

Science does not connect with god and god does not connect with science.

Don't try to prove it because you can't.

 

[quantum4]

Also you seem rather incapable of accepting the fact your quick inferences could be not true. And that there are other beliefs out there.

You say 2+2 = 4. Therefore there must be a god.. I mean that makes no sense... no!

 

[Owen]

What exactly have I done? Because I beleive there is one truth you are insulted? You beleive there is one truth also. Should I say that I beleive you are right also? No. However, I am not being close minded about this, as I am in the process of reading your articles, which I will talk about now.

What you were basically asking me is to say I beleive that the other side could possibly be true. I don't. If evidence comes up to prove me wrong I would admit it, but the thing is I have not seen any factual evidence that goes against what I say. It is only the interpretations of evidence that seem to go against what I beleive. I am not going to say I think you are right. Not because I think I am gifted beyond you. I am not. I have just seen the other side of the story, because of my experiences, which again I stress make me no better than you.

You call me stubborn. I instead say I beleive in truths despite what others say(not talking about evidence). I will not budge on my beliefs until I see evidence to go against what I beleive.

First- http://net-burst.net/hot/scie.htm

Unless I am reading this past wrong, it is vouching for Christianity.

Second- http://www.faginfamily.net/barry/Papers/id.htm

Basically, the article is saying, because a process can be explain in simple regards, therefore Intelligent Design is debunked. Intelligent Design actually argues that God created the Universe and made it how it is based upon the Laws of the Universe. It also states that based upon our known laws that it would be near impossible for the Universe to come out like it did without a leading influence.

Third- http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~shallit/plimer.html

Arguing against Creation. 7 literal day creation isn't the only thing that agrees with the Bible. Something called the day-age interpretation complies with both scientific evidence and the account of Genesis. It is at the website I have given you at http://www.godandscience.org

 

[quantum4]

Oops that first link was the wrong one... I had another site up. You see I do look at both sides...

I have no further to discuss. I believe in what I believe in as the one truth. Now lets leave it at that. You do have a superiority complex as it seems.

Good day and I hope one day you change.

 

[Owen]

Originally posted by quantum4
Also you seem rather incapable of accepting the fact your quick inferences could be not true. And that there are other beliefs out there.

You say 2+2 = 4. Therefore there must be a god.. I mean that makes no sense... no!

Prove to me where my inferences are wrong. Something that says "that is wrong." If sometihng I say is wrong, I encourage you to show me where. Simply saying it is wrong doesn't show how.

I know there are other beliefs are out there. However, my car is black and I know it is black. You say it is red. Am I being stubborn because I still beleive my car is black? No. I believe with very little doubt in my mind that there is a God and it is the Christian God. Are you asking me to say that I am wrong?

 

[quantum4]

Originally posted by Owen
Prove to me where my inferences are wrong. Something that says "that is wrong." If sometihng I say is wrong, I encourage you to show me where. Simply saying it is wrong doesn't show how.

I know there are other beliefs are out there. However, my car is black and I know it is black. You say it is red. Am I being stubborn because I still beleive my car is black? No. I believe with very little doubt in my mind that there is a God and it is the Christian God. Are you asking me to say that I am wrong?

OH MY GOODNESS.. this is just pathetic.. has somebody brainwashed you?

I never would say your car is red. In fact I would say it is black. You would say it is red. I look at things logically and in order. Does that mean there needs to be a god? NO!

 

[Owen]

Superiority complex? Where? Because what I feel what I beleive in is the absolute truth? How is that a superiority complex?

 

[quantum4]

Originally posted by Owen
Superiority complex? Where? Because what I feel what I beleive in is the absolute truth? How is that a superiority complex?

You throw off my beliefs as if they were garbage! And got me quite upset.

 

[Owen]

Originally posted by quantum4
OH MY GOODNESS.. this is just pathetic.. has somebody brainwashed you?

I never would say your car is red. In fact I would say it is black. You would say it is red. I look at things logically and in order. Does that mean there needs to be a god? NO!

I ask you though. Should I think you could be right when I haven't seen evidence to support your conclusion and have seen evidence to support the contrary?

I look things logically too. The crux of the matter is one of us is not using flawed logic. You beleive I am, I beleive you are. You believe you are right, therefore have a superiority complex by your reasoning, and I beleive I am right, therefore I have a superiority complex by your reasoning. There has to be something that gives.

You have taken my beleif that something is fact and that yours isn't to mean I am degrading you. I am not. You are seeing more into the matter than there is. I believe with near 100% there is a truth. Is it possible it is flawed? Yes. Of course I have yet to see anything that makes it flawed. Show me something that proves it is flawed then I will concede what it proves. All I am asking you for is more evidence. What you have provided so far has its flaws from what I see.

 

[Owen]

Originally posted by quantum4
You throw off my beliefs as if they were garbage! And got me quite upset.

How did I throw your beliefs out like garbage? Because I don't beleive them?

What I said was I don't believe you are right. Should I say I do beleive you are right when I don't? Should I believe what you say or bend my beliefs because you believe something different? Should I say nothing when you say sometihng on a public message board when I take it to be wrong?

If I were to say 2+2=5 but a teacher told me that was wrong and it equaled 4, does that mean she threw my beliefs out like garbage? No. She would be trying to help me.

I am not trying to flame you. I am trying to get you to see what I am saying and what I am not.

The fact of the matter is there is one truth. Either your belief in no god or my belief in God is correct. There is no middle ground. Its just a question of who is right.

MY point got off topic because I was trying to give you some food for thought supporthing that there is a God. I ask you think about where absolute morals come from. If you wish to answer it, I would love to talk to you about it.

I did not mean for this to turn into what you though was me insulting you. I was simply saying I thought my belief is the truth. I wasn't being closeminded about it(I would look at evidence from both sides when presented), but rather saying I believe what I believe and short of good evidence, my beliefs will not budge otherwise.

 

[quantum4]

I believe we both are following faith in different beliefs, not fact.

I don't think you are right. Lets leave it at that.

 

[quantum4]

As you have proven your inability to talk with me, I have nothing further to say on the matter. You are just another close minded Christian from the bible belt.

 

[Owen]

Originally posted by quantum4
As you have proven your inability to talk with me, I have nothing further to say on the matter. You are just another close minded Christian from the bible belt.

How am I close minded? Please show me where I am being what you say I am.

 

[quantum4]

Originally posted by Owen
How am I close minded? Please show me where I am being what you say I am.

As I have said I have nothing further to say to you. I seen your type. All the same. You say you are caring and understanding.. but that really is a load of nonsense. I am dedicated to my beliefs and I will never budge.

 

[Owen]

Originally posted by quantum4
As I have said I have nothing further to say to you. I seen your type. All the same. You say you are caring and understanding.. but that really is a load of nonsense. I am dedicated to my beliefs and I will never budge.

All I am asking of you now is to back your accusations of me. You have called me close-minded, said I have a superiority-complex, made sarcastic remarks about my first reply to you, that I don't look at other sides, etc. etc. and I ask you to back up what you say.

Calm down a moment and read what I have been saying.

 

[quantum4]

You have been saying nothing of applicability to me.

Good day. Next time you want to discuss actually consider, not bring in a bunch of smoke and mirrors to make it appear so.

 

[Owen]

Originally posted by quantum4
You have been saying nothing of applicability to me.

Good day. Next time you want to discuss actually consider, not bring in a bunch of smoke and mirrors to make it appear so.

Sorry to be blunt, but it appears you are the one bring in smoke and mirrors.

I have explained what I beleive with evidence and even talk about your evidence, but you refuse to refute what I bring up in my evidence or my replies to your evidence and then accuse me of being close minded and other things. I ask you to show me where I am being what you accuse me of, yet you keep bringing the accusations, without showing me where I am being what you accuse me of. You keep saying I am saying nothing of applicability and avoiding the question of where I am being what you say I am.

Why can you not answer the simple request of backing up what you say? Is it because what you are accusing me of is wrong and there is nothing to back it up? If that isn't the case, please point my wrongs out. I will admit my wrongs if they are brought up.

 

[quantum4]

As I said I do not have the time for this nonsense. You are putting words where they don't belong. Good day to you.

 

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by Owen

As for answer prayers, I have proof, and I will mention them, but it is up to you to beleive them.
1) Late in my junior year of high school, I had no real friends to mention. I prayed to God that I would have some people to hang out. That weekend, I get invited to go out with a guy I know. I hadn't told anyone about that.
2) I have been some financial worries the past few months since I am college. I had been worried about praying that God would resolve those issues. Well, I am currently in the process of getting a job as a youth minister, which would pay me some extra money. Keep in mind I am a 19 year old, been a Christian for only 3 1/2 years, so that is hard to do.
3) To go off becoming a youth minister, the church which I am more than likely about to be at, was an answer to my prayers. I wanted the church to be a church will to make change and not be rooted in tradition, a situation where I could easily adjust since I was moving from a spot as a youth intern at a church with a youth I love, and a youth group that is seeking the truth. The church is currently moving towards being contemporary, the pastor there is good friends with the youth minister at the church I intern at till when and if I get this job, and the youth from what I have seen and heard is a youth group that is searching hard for the truth.
4) To add, a couple months earlier, I was trying to make a decision whether I should become a youth minister or not, and at the time God was telling me it wasn't the time. Well, this summer the question comes up, and I get a list of churches that need youth ministers. Well, the first church I pick is the church I am currently looking at, and it had just started looking for a new youth minister. God was telling me to wait a little while so I would go to this church I am more than likely at(just a few final details to finish)

Those are just the big ones off hand. There are many smaller ones that I remember that happened, but I can not recall the specifics of them.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...

 

[conkermaniac]

Originally posted by Owen
ACtaully, I should have said God is the answer to science. Here is why. The law of cause and effect. The universe is made up of matter. In our universe there is a law that says that matter(or energy) can neither be created or destroyed(don't ask me the specific name of that law). The universe has not qualities of self-creation, but rather just expansion of matter(if the Big Bang theory is true).

Therefore, for matter to exist, there has to be a cause, since matter can not be created. If matter is created out of nothing, then it creates a law that matter is not created, which is impossible. If a law that matter is not created is started first, then matter can not be created. There must be a previous cause. Also, with the law of Cause and Effect, there is alway a first cause. The only logical conclusion is that there is a higher entity, which we will call God, that created the universe and the laws of it at the same time.

You may ask, where did God come from, but two things. First of all, we have very little evidence about the nature of God and his being, besides what religion could be, but doesn't explain God so much as what he sees at righteous. Second of all, there must be a previous cause since the universe has not shown any capablity of being a first cause.

My view is that before the Big Bang, there was an infinitely dense "particle", with the mass of the current universe and no volume. Then the particles spread out after the Big Bang, and they continue to do so.

There need not be a known cause for this infinitely dense "particle", as that is beyond our conception at that moment, just as you feel that there need not be a known cause for God.