Should same-sex marriages be made legal?

[Archbob]

I agree with this as well.

Robert, read the Bible and you will see that nobody comes into this world a sinner. So, no God did not "create" a gay person. Yes he still loves them, but us humans have freewill and that's where sin comes in to try and take it over.

This is my last post ever in the general forum. I find this forum to be one-sided, which is fine, I just don't want to waste time in here anymore trying to show the "other" side. :tired2:

So see you all in the other forums

I have a problem with this. It has been shown that genetics do play a large part in determining whether a personal is homosexual or not. The person really doesn't have much of a choice. Research has strong evidence that many people are just born homorsexual. Which means, yes, God did create them that way.

 

[Mazinkaiser]

I have a problem with this. It has been shown that genetics do play a large part in determining whether a personal is homosexual or not. The person really doesn't have much of a choice. Research has strong evidence that many people are just born homorsexual. Which means, yes, God did create them that way.

Again, let my clarify. I believe, along with the Catholic church, that while homosexual TENDENCIES may be genetic (and even that is inconclusive), a person can still have a choice as to whether he wants to engage in a homosexual act or not. Therefore, IF the choice is wrong (and I am of the persuation it is), then a person is held culpable. This is what Vertical Host means, I think.

Case in point: I know a homosexual person who, being a practicing catholic, chose to abstain from homosexual acts(actually he got married and now has two kids...). He cannot be condemned for something he didn't do, even if the urges are there.

Of course, I am once again assuming that homosexuality is wrong, which is something that most religions teach, but others disagree with.

Vertical host: Catholic doctrine does not teach a person comes into this world a sinner, but that a person comes into this world devoid of sanctifying grace. It means a person is born without any guilt on his part, but without the necessary grace of justification (meaning, why would God let something imperfect into heaven?) Just thought you'd want to know the distinction we make.

And to go to Jmiller's defense: in an earlier post in this thread, he had a reply where he both disagreed with me on one point and agreed with me on another. He had reasons for both. That, in my eyes, is respect, not blind prejudice.

 

[Wojtek]

Research has strong evidence that many people are just born homorsexual. Which means, yes, God did create them that way.

everyone makes mistakes
even God.

They can live together and be a couple, no problems with that, but nothing more.
It just isnt right.

 

[Nick]

Marriage isn't sacred anymore.

Game shows where people compete to be married to a millionare.

The fact that you can actually get married by an Elvis impersonator.

Oh, and I work in a law firm and divorce is BIG business these days.

As long as people continue to get married, divorce will remain big business.

 

[Mazinkaiser]

everyone makes mistakes
even God.

They can live together and be a couple, no problems with that, but nothing more.
It just isnt right.

I'd have to disagree with this one. If God could make mistakes, then he wouldn't be God. Of course, that last statement is food for the anti-religious heh heh.

 

[Archbob]

No, I believe the bible holds God to be flawless. After all, he is God.

 

[Mazinkaiser]

Not to disagree with you, Archbob - I do believe God to be perfect - but shouldn't we believers give a better reason than merely "coz the bible sez so?"
What happens when one does not accept the bible? How then do we convince them without refering to circular arguments?

Just a thought.

 

[CareBear]

I still fail to understand how religious doctrines have any place in this debate.
Extending civil weddings to include homosexual couples does not impact on religion in any way. If you choose to believe that the practice of homosexuality is a sin and against your religion, then that will not change if the law changes the definition of marriage to include same sex unions.
The law does not recognize a solely religious wedding, and I would imagine that most religions wouldn't accept a solely civil marriage as has having religious significance.
Based solely on religion (and depending on which particular church you choose to follow), divorcing your spouse and remarrying another is a sin, yet the law is simple and has no issues with this.
The only arguement against the shared usage of the word marriage for both hetero- and homosexual couples I can see is based to stigmatize that particular group.

 

[Robert]

I still fail to understand how religious doctrines have any place in this debate.
Extending civil weddings to include homosexual couples does not impact on religion in any way. If you choose to believe that the practice of homosexuality is a sin and against your religion, then that will not change if the law changes the definition of marriage to include same sex unions.
The law does not recognize a solely religious wedding, and I would imagine that most religions wouldn't accept a solely civil marriage as has having religious significance.
Based solely on religion (and depending on which particular church you choose to follow), divorcing your spouse and remarrying another is a sin, yet the law is simple and has no issues with this.
The only arguement against the shared usage of the word marriage for both hetero- and homosexual couples I can see is based to stigmatize that particular group.

Exactly. Why we are debating a equal rights movement with a religous viewpoint? Because our President has banned Same Sex Marriage because his faith doesn't believe in it.

I don't believe someone becomes gay, they are born gay. It has to do with the XY and Y Chromosomes. But to me, it doesn't matter if you are born gay, turn gay, or want to be a gay person, you're equal in my eyes. Just because your sexual preference is different then mine, who cares? You are still capable of performing the same job that I do.

 

[tandoc]

I'm having a wild stab here... but maybe its more along the lines of 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile'...

perhaps its all just to keep everyone in order, and they're doing what they think is right to keep everyone under control..

a similar situation, IMO, in Australia is that our prime minister refuses to apologize for the actions of generations before us.. no one should make him apologize, it's not as if he did it himself.. and if he did apologize.. it opens the door to a torrent of other problems that people would want addressed as they relate to the original problem everyone wants an apology for... (i won't go into it)

in my opinion, this is a more simple way of eliminating what they believe the smaller problems are, and worrying about the issues at hand.. ie. dominating the world

 

[Wojtek]

Way to go tandoc
from a gay debate, you managed to end up with world domination, haha

but I agree on your give inch, take mile statement

 

[Robert]

I'm having a wild stab here... but maybe its more along the lines of 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile'...

perhaps its all just to keep everyone in order, and they're doing what they think is right to keep everyone under control..

a similar situation, IMO, in Australia is that our prime minister refuses to apologize for the actions of generations before us.. no one should make him apologize, it's not as if he did it himself.. and if he did apologize.. it opens the door to a torrent of other problems that people would want addressed as they relate to the original problem everyone wants an apology for... (i won't go into it)

in my opinion, this is a more simple way of eliminating what they believe the smaller problems are, and worrying about the issues at hand.. ie. dominating the world

Give them an inch and they'll take a while? All they are wanting is to be treated equal. Women at one point weren't treated equal in this country; black either.

As far as your PM going to apologize, the Pope apologized for what Hilter did in WWII. He didn't have to, but he did. He wanted people to realize that because it's over, doesn't mean it never happened. But I'm not sure how that related to same-sex marriage.

Gays are not wanting tax breaks, or have permission to park in handicap parking spaces or even want to be able to openly show gay movies at theatres. They just want equal rights. I thought this country was better than this.

 

[spec]

I would like to see the solid proof saying Homosexuality is genetic. I think its very dangerous saying that it is. This would be like saying you are gay, its not your choice, you HAVE to be this way, its just how you were born... or worse for those who disapprove, you are defective. Even if you are not religious and believe in evolution, this would make absolutely no sense. The whole purpose of sexual attraction is reproduction. I am not saying that its not actual attraction or love between two men or women, I am just saying its not possible for "nature" to intend them to be that way. Maybe I am wrong?

 

[Archbob]

Well, I'm not actually a believer, I'm not Christian. But if you are Christian than you should believe that God is perfect because the holy bible says so. The bible is the core of Christianity and whatever it says, Christians have to believe its true. Even if it said "A giant llama will come and end the world", its still gospel.

The bible is pretty much the only thing Christianity has to go on, and it draws all its proofs from there when challenged by modern science.

 

[Robert]

I would like to see the solid proof saying Homosexuality is genetic. I think its very dangerous saying that it is. This would be like saying you are gay, its not your choice, you HAVE to be this way, its just how you were born... or worse for those who disapprove, you are defective. Even if you are not religious and believe in evolution, this would make absolutely no sense. The whole purpose of sexual attraction is reproduction. I am not saying that its not actual attraction or love between two men or women, I am just saying its not possible for "nature" to intend them to be that way. Maybe I am wrong?

There is no proof. Anyone who says "I woke up today and decided i was gay", is either bisexual, or lieing. Why would someone want to be gay, knowing how our society treats them? How they will be disrespected, abused, humilated and so on?

Whether a person wants to be gay, bisexual or straight, it doesn't matter. what matters i we accept them, we love them and we show them that it's ok to be different.

 

[Archbob]

Actually there were articles in Scientific American and some other magazines that have done studies and do provide strong circumstantial proof.

 

[CareBear]

This would be like saying you are gay, its not your choice, you HAVE to be this way, its just how you were born... or worse for those who disapprove, you are defective.

If you look at it strictly from an evolutionary point of view, you could claim that.
But then people who suffer from a mental illness, obesity, deformation, not having perfect looks or physique, hereditary illnesses, infertility and many more are all defective as well.
The whole Y chromosome could be considered defective since it's a lot shorter then the X chromosome and therefore a lot more susceptible to corruption for cell division.
Evidence has been found to support both the fact that it's based on genes and that there is some degree of flexibility on sexual preference within someone's lifetime, more so with women then with men (as per that particular study, I'm not stating it as a fact).
Whichever the case may be, I do believe that it's not a choice you can consciously make. You can't will yourself to suddenly be attracted to a certain sex, you just are or you aren't.
A lot, if not most of the sex we as a species engage in, is not meant for procreation so we're all unnatural in that sense.

Like Robert also pointed out, the simplified basic issue is whether or not homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals or not.

On the whole "give an inch, take a mile" point of view. A close related demand is adoption rights for a homosexual couple. In Holland both same sex marriages and adoption rights for same sex couples was made legal. In Belgium it was only same sex marriages and adoption rights is still on the table.
It doesn't have to be everything at once, but it should at the least move forward.

I don't live in the US so my view on it may be warped, but it seems everything has to be overdramatised. Neither Holland or Belgium saw mass protests of outraged people or mass political protest. Nor were there thousands of same sex couples rushing towards city hall to get married.

 

[Robert]

I don't live in the US so my view on it may be warped, but it seems everything has to be overdramatised. Neither Holland or Belgium saw mass protests of outraged people or mass political protest. Nor were there thousands of same sex couples rushing towards city hall to get married.

Exactly. We have bigger issues to worry about. But there were thounsands of same sex couples rushing all over the country getting married when CA started to allow them to and other states. That is when Bush stepped up and said "no no no.. not so fast!"

 

[jmiller]

I still can't turn on CBC Radio without hearing some sort of nonsense about "homosexual marriage".

Whether it is from a right-wing Christian or from a gay-rights advocate, it's all become nonsense now, and makes less and less sense each time.

 

[stabme]

i personally am not too fond of homosexuality. but that's not going to make me think gay marriage should be banned.

it's proven that homosexuality is biologically predisposed. it may be hormonal disbalance, it may be neurological, it may be genetical, dna, or maybe even a combination of all. it's been proven that the homosexual male has more or less the same brain structure and abilities as a heterosexual female, and same with homosexual female and heterosexual male. however, the question is whether experience made the brain structure this way, or brain structure makes behavior this way, or a 3rd factor made both.

but the matter of truth is homosexuality cannot be changed. there have been many people who have prayed, and tried EVERYTHING to become heterosexual--mostly because of social norms having such a negative attitude against homosexuality---and failed. this is because homosexuality cannot be changed. it cannot be corrected. this is why the DSM removed it from it's list of psychological disorders--because it's not a psychological disorder, and perfectly natural. it's even in nature, yes.

it's just like personality. your sexual orientation cannot be changed, no matter what anyone does. the most anyone can do is learn to be attracted to the opposite gender. and that's one reason why there are bisexuals. (not sure if bisexual can be biologically predisposed). but because it is not innate, sometimes they become tired of living a lie. this is why some marriages fail and one of the spouse turns out to turn lesbian or gay.

because of homosexuality not being a choice, i don't think it's fair that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. it's just like saying you're not allowed to do this because you were born. they're still people. they can't decide whether they're straight or not. unfortuantely, most people do.

besides, there aren't even that many homosexuals. i believe the statistics is about 1-3% in the population--not enough to bother anyone significantly.